New chat room entered at 1/4/2005 8:46:27 PM.
You are now in chat room “Chat 20195000700156243270.”
MilesMk1 (8:46:54 PM): I think I only ever lost connection once. Good old Roadrunner.
Vernjonal (8:47:32 PM): Speakeasy's pretty reliable too, but nothing beats prewar construction when it comes to soaking up radio waves.
Thematrian1 has entered the chat room.

Thematrian1 (8:48:11 PM): thank you
MilesMk1 (8:49:47 PM): Heh... My building has exterior walls that are 2' thick in places.
MilesMk1 (8:50:00 PM): Inside, about 5".
Thematrian1 (8:50:03 PM): nice. Turn of the century construction?
MilesMk1 (8:50:17 PM): I wouldn't dream about using a wireless connection..
MilesMk1 (8:50:31 PM): Yeah. Old enough to have a porte cochere.
Vernjonal (8:50:45 PM): "Look! I can get a connection from anywhere in this room, and a little bit of the next one over!"
Thematrian1 (8:52:46 PM): any word on Adam?
MilesMk1 (8:52:54 PM): Heh... I had a friend that lived in a subway apartment. The router didn't have enough range to reach more than half the place.
Vernjonal (8:53:41 PM): Well, Adam's in his house
Vernjonal (8:53:56 PM): Why he's not online is a mystery.
Thematrian1 (8:53:57 PM): a fine beginning
Vernjonal (8:54:17 PM): He was certainly planning to be on...
MilesMk1 (8:54:28 PM): Can you threaten him with a weapon, or something, or are you in different buildings?
Vernjonal (8:54:47 PM): Different buildings. If I was that close, I'd've done it before now.
MilesMk1 (8:54:59 PM): Grab a katana, bang it on the edge of the table a couple of times for emphasis...
Vernjonal (8:55:06 PM): Hehehe
Vernjonal (8:55:19 PM): "We need emergency surgery in the studio"
Vernjonal (8:56:02 PM): Ah, I just thought of something
MilesMk1 (8:56:07 PM): "And the nice thing about these" *bang* *bang* "Ah! Ah! It got me. Yeah, it got me. The broken piece... It got me."
Vernjonal (8:56:17 PM): He was coming back from exercising, so he may have gone to take a shower first.
Vernjonal (8:57:10 PM): Incidentally, if I haven't done it by next Thursday, someone remind me to spend a few hours on the phone bitching to iPowerWeb.
Thematrian1 (8:57:21 PM): fair enough. What about?
MilesMk1 (8:57:24 PM): Your web provider?
Vernjonal (8:57:31 PM): They're using an old and vulnerable version of PhP.
Thematrian1 (8:57:33 PM): the people who host SotSW
Vernjonal (8:57:52 PM): I also need to reinstall the forum software to try to kill that bug in our implementation of BBTech.
MilesMk1 (8:58:12 PM): So, is the new color scheme intentional, or a part of the problem?
MilesMk1 (8:58:31 PM): And why are we getting posts from Russian prostitues?
MilesMk1 (8:58:41 PM): (supposed)
Vernjonal (8:58:57 PM): Intentional. In BBTech, the Register New Account window didn't actually have a field for the username.
MilesMk1 (8:59:14 PM): I could see how that'd make things difficult.
Vernjonal (8:59:35 PM): And as for the Russians, no idea. Once I actually get that problem fixed I'm going to turn off guest access in most of the forums.
Vernjonal (8:59:58 PM): Are there any more I haven't deleted yet?
Thematrian1 (9:00:15 PM): I see none
EverGuard4 has entered the chat room.

Umbrafer (9:00:30 PM): Wewt.
EverGuard4 (9:00:44 PM): um... I think mater wants me for something
Umbrafer (9:00:50 PM): Unwewt.
MilesMk1 (9:01:08 PM): Argh.
EverGuard4 has left the chat room.

Umbrafer (9:01:46 PM): Hopefully he'll be back shortly.
MilesMk1 (9:02:42 PM): http://www.legal-explanations.com/definitions/justifiable-homicide.htm
Thematrian1 (9:03:06 PM): mmmm, subtle
Umbrafer (9:03:19 PM): Quite.
MilesMk1 (9:03:37 PM): Just getting into character.
Thematrian1 (9:03:48 PM): hehe
MilesMk1 (9:04:01 PM): I might have become Shojo by mistake.
Umbrafer (9:04:27 PM): You man-hater, you.
Umbrafer (9:05:55 PM): 'Minds me, Seiler: do you know of any good way to test the quality of the connection between two computers? Transfer rate, latency, etc.?
Umbrafer (9:06:03 PM): Or is just finding a large file and transferring it the best way/
Umbrafer (9:06:04 PM): *?
Thematrian1 (9:06:18 PM): that's the fastest, yeah
Thematrian1 (9:06:34 PM): you could write a program to test it more directly, but that wouldn't be any easier
Umbrafer (9:06:40 PM): *Nods*
Thematrian1 (9:09:38 PM): So, to recap: Blake is in the basement, having killed a bunch of zombies and presently finding whole bunches of nothing. Shojo and Alex are outside, with a giant face in the sky, in a van traveling a tiny fraction of its usual spee
Thematrian1 (9:09:40 PM): d
Umbrafer (9:09:55 PM): Something about 1/6th, IIRC?
Thematrian1 (9:10:08 PM): heh. Yep.
MilesMk1 (9:10:43 PM): From what I recall, I killed the zombies, found something that looked like a barracks, and kept moving, stopping at a new T-intersection, approaching it from the bottom.
Umbrafer (9:11:05 PM): Then a brief interchange with no-English man
MilesMk1 (9:11:27 PM): That was after the three zombies?
Thematrian1 (9:11:34 PM): indeed. The 'and kept moving' encompassed a bunch of sneaking up on empty corridoors
Thematrian1 (9:11:35 PM): no
Thematrian1 (9:11:37 PM): other way around
MilesMk1 (9:11:40 PM): I thinm it was before.
MilesMk1 (9:11:52 PM): think, evem
Thematrian1 (9:11:53 PM): Spanish Man ran away, Blake kept going but didn't catch him.
MilesMk1 (9:11:54 PM): even
MilesMk1 (9:12:10 PM): !@#*&%$
Umbrafer (9:12:19 PM): Spelled that one right
Umbrafer (9:12:29 PM): (Typed)
Umbrafer (9:14:52 PM): Brb, foodness
Umbrafer (9:16:41 PM): Back
MilesMk1 (9:17:03 PM): *twiddle, twiddle*
MilesMk1 (9:17:11 PM): So, either of you play World of Warcraft?
MilesMk1 (9:17:20 PM): You can play that one on a Mac, I hear.
Umbrafer (9:17:39 PM): I haven't played it.
Thematrian1 (9:17:47 PM): sadly, no. I barely got out of MUDs to go to college; any MMORPG would eat my soul.
Umbrafer (9:18:06 PM): Ever since they failed to release Ultima Online for the Mac, I've never really gotten hooked on any MMORPG.
Umbrafer (9:18:16 PM): Though I've been tempted by City of Heroes.
Thematrian1 (9:18:42 PM): I've heard it's excellent, though...and that reminds me, what happened to City of Heroes?
MilesMk1 (9:19:09 PM): It's the best implemented game of this type I've played. Tried it out of boredom, after giving up on MMORPGs for a couple of years, and it sucked me in for about a week... I did claw my way out, though.
MilesMk1 (9:19:21 PM): City of Heroes is around...
MilesMk1 (9:19:55 PM): I tried it briefly, and it makes a great impression, but it got old faster than any other MMORPG I ever played.
Thematrian1 (9:20:42 PM): ah
Umbrafer (9:20:50 PM): I could see that, I guess.
MilesMk1 (9:21:17 PM): The character model customization is pretty damn good, the gameplay is decent, but what you can *do* as a superhero just isn't all that special.
Umbrafer (9:21:38 PM): I've been focused more on first-person shooters since I'm trying to set up a recurring LAN party, though I'm trying to also add in some Warcraft III and maybe even Myth in there sometime.
Thematrian1 (9:22:01 PM): heh. Put like that, I can see how the bar would be pretty high.
MilesMk1 (9:22:40 PM): I never finished Warcraft III... Maybe I'll get back to it.
Umbrafer (9:23:15 PM): I've come to realize that just as Unreal Tournament was all about Assault, Unreal Tournament 2004 is all about Onslaught.
MilesMk1 (9:23:25 PM): The neat thing about WoW is that you actually feel like you're in a more detailed version of the Warcraft III world, watching things from a worm's-eye view.
Umbrafer (9:23:30 PM): Hehehe
Thematrian1 (9:23:31 PM): I was good at Starcraft, so I tried it. It didn't work out so well, though; W3 rewards battle management, which Starcraft never did.
Thematrian1 (9:23:32 PM): Argh.
Thematrian1 (9:23:43 PM): It's like you're trying to make me drop out of college ;-)
Umbrafer (9:24:08 PM): Hey, maybe when you finally go back and finish the CS job market will have recovered.
Thematrian1 (9:24:18 PM): it's a conspiracy
MilesMk1 (9:24:34 PM): You're running along through the forest, watching for enemies, when suddenly you see a burned-out wreck of an orc catapult straight out of W3. :)
Umbrafer (9:25:07 PM): A Myth MMORPG would rock.
MilesMk1 (9:25:37 PM): Heh... Would the monster that exploded once it got close be one of the playable races? ;)
Thematrian1 (9:26:05 PM): ...I was about to laugh, then I realized that I would gladly play that race, if only for ten minutes.
Umbrafer (9:26:06 PM): That would be awesome. Or the Thrall (mindless shambling zombies with woodsman's axes)
Umbrafer (9:26:23 PM): I still want to run a game of GURPS Myth with the party as mindless undead
MilesMk1 (9:26:40 PM): Wouldn't that be pretty... linear?
MilesMk1 (9:26:58 PM): The players wouldn't have to do much. :)
Thematrian1 (9:27:00 PM): hey, if you're willing to run GURPS anything I regard that as progress
Thematrian1 (9:27:02 PM): ;-)
Thematrian1 (9:27:11 PM): but yeah, how does the mindless undead thing work?
Umbrafer (9:27:12 PM): Well, I'm still considering what to convert it to ;)
Umbrafer (9:27:18 PM): Dunno.
MilesMk1 (9:27:23 PM): I've been playing 4th Edition GURPS a little lately.
Umbrafer (9:27:47 PM): It would probably be mostly a few minutes of strategy to figure out how best to shamble close to as many people as possible before plunging your dagger into your bloated corpse
Thematrian1 (9:27:51 PM): I was once put under a spell that turned me into a flesh-eating zombie, and it was fun to roleplay for the five or so minutes that it took my party to find a counterspell, but I'm not sure how well it would hold up
Thematrian1 (9:28:05 PM): how is it? Sad to say, I've not bought the book, or run any 4e games, or anything
MilesMk1 (9:28:45 PM): Well, the annoying thing is the bastards lied through their teeth about the whole "Two books, characters and campaigns, and players only need the 1st one" thing.
Thematrian1 (9:28:59 PM): frown. How so?
MilesMk1 (9:29:27 PM): That's only true if you don't really care how little things like bleeding, or drowning, or any number of advanced rules of interest to an experienced player are.
MilesMk1 (9:29:57 PM): make that "how" a "what".
Thematrian1 (9:30:09 PM): oh. Double frown. I can see the logic, if I squint...but yeah.
MilesMk1 (9:30:54 PM): I mean, it's ok for casual gamers, but not for people like me, who can easily spend ten hours on a character.
MilesMk1 (9:31:06 PM): There is an upside.
MilesMk1 (9:31:13 PM): The editing is hugely improved.
Thematrian1 (9:31:13 PM): ::nod:: and those are the sorts of people GURPS tends to cater to
Thematrian1 (9:31:21 PM): oh good.
MilesMk1 (9:31:27 PM): The rules have been tightened up.
MilesMk1 (9:31:50 PM): They've also been made more generic.
Umbrafer (9:32:08 PM): How so?
Thematrian1 (9:32:33 PM): ::pumps for information on a diversity of topics::
Thematrian1 (9:32:47 PM): well, all gaming topics actually. But you know.
MilesMk1 (9:33:11 PM): There are some abilities now, like "innate attack" (to grab a random example) that can be customized in endless way by adding mods to represent a huge number of things.
Thematrian1 (9:33:38 PM): ::nod:: I think I've asked you this before, but have you played Hero?
MilesMk1 (9:34:00 PM): Depending on what adjustments you make, it can be anything from a superhero's beam, to a cinematic martial artist's super-strong punch, to a cyborg's skull-gun.
MilesMk1 (9:34:10 PM): Nope, but I gather it did something similar?
MilesMk1 (9:34:16 PM): I have the book somewhere...
Umbrafer (9:34:20 PM): Very.
Thematrian1 (9:34:21 PM): skull-gun? Does shadowrun have those?
Umbrafer (9:34:26 PM): Yep
Umbrafer (9:34:30 PM): Eye-guns, at least
MilesMk1 (9:34:39 PM): It does, but I was actually thinking Diamond Age, there.
Thematrian1 (9:35:05 PM): I haven't read that book in years.
Umbrafer (9:35:18 PM): Still haven't read it.
Thematrian1 (9:35:24 PM): tisk tisk
MilesMk1 (9:35:25 PM): And the big thing is that the two basic books have a LOT more rules and options than the old ones did, even with the compendia thrown in.
Thematrian1 (9:35:54 PM): heavens. GURPS core was always pretty information-dense, but...
MilesMk1 (9:35:55 PM): With a much better range of stuff.
Umbrafer (9:36:53 PM): After Snow Crash, I'm still amazed that Stephenson knows a hawk from a handsaw with regard to computers.
MilesMk1 (9:37:02 PM): They have a lot of cinematic, supernatural and exotic advantages and disadvantages now.
MilesMk1 (9:37:12 PM): Oh, whatever... He was just having fun, there.
Thematrian1 (9:37:34 PM): indeed. You've read his essay on computing?
Umbrafer (9:37:39 PM): He was, it's true. And I had fun right along with him, except for three sticking points.
Umbrafer (9:37:42 PM): Which one?
MilesMk1 (9:37:51 PM): In the beginning there was the command prompt?
MilesMk1 (9:37:52 PM): Yeah.
Thematrian1 (9:37:56 PM): the very same. Were there others?
Umbrafer (9:38:02 PM): Read about half of it.
Umbrafer (9:38:05 PM): No idea
MilesMk1 (9:38:10 PM): I don't know, that's why I was asking. :)
Umbrafer (9:38:42 PM): The three sticking points:
Thematrian1 (9:38:48 PM): nuts. I only know of the one, and I like to think I'd learn of others.
Umbrafer (9:38:50 PM): 1) The main character's name.
Umbrafer (9:38:56 PM): 2) Glass knives.
Umbrafer (9:39:43 PM): 3) An immersive computer environment whose sole mentioned output is lasers painting on sunglasses and whose input is, IIRC, basically a keyboard. There's no reason why it should be remotely as immersive as it is described.
MilesMk1 (9:40:07 PM): I'll agree with 3), even though it didn't bug me that much.
Thematrian1 (9:40:08 PM): aw, come on. #1 was downright mundane. #2, well, yeah, ok. #3....didn't it also scan body position?
Umbrafer (9:40:45 PM): Possibly. In which case it would go ever so slightly closer, but still...
MilesMk1 (9:40:52 PM): 1) I got a laugh out of, and 2)... I don't mind glass knives when they're being used by people who carry a nuclear missile in the sidecar of their hog. ;)
Umbrafer (9:41:07 PM): Sad thing is, I don't mind the nuclear weapon :)
Thematrian1 (9:41:12 PM): he makes an excellent point
Umbrafer (9:41:30 PM): I thought it was a bit silly, but then in a book like that I was still cool with it.
Umbrafer (9:41:43 PM): But glass knives, knives that he apparently uses more than once each...
MilesMk1 (9:42:03 PM): Just to finish off my GURPS rant with an example - the old book has 20 pages of ads/disads. The new one has 160.
MilesMk1 (9:42:12 PM): That's the key difference. :)
Thematrian1 (9:42:18 PM): ...how on earth do you...how would...wibble...
Thematrian1 (9:42:40 PM): ::feels ten years of GURPS gearhead knowledge become worthless ;-)::
MilesMk1 (9:43:39 PM): Actually has about 20 pages on magic, 10 or so on psionics... Pretty dense with info, but not so much of it they won't be able to put out a new "Magic" book.
Thematrian1 (9:44:02 PM): and indeed, according to Warehouse 23, they have done so
MilesMk1 (9:45:08 PM): Diamond Age, to skip topics wildly, is a more serious book than Snow Crash... Although the "suspiciously immersive world, given the technology" issue does crop up too - although I guess it's less glaring, given
MilesMk1 (9:45:15 PM): the way it's presnted there.
Thematrian1 (9:45:52 PM): IIRC there's a lot of nanotechnology magic, basically. There are lots of problems you can solve if you have strong nano, and they do, so there you are
Umbrafer (9:46:04 PM): I have heard that it is.
Thematrian1 (9:46:27 PM): Well, it helps solve the immersive technology problem
MilesMk1 (9:46:29 PM): Yeah, but I meant the way the Primer and Nell interact.
MilesMk1 (9:46:43 PM): although given a kid's imagination, etc., I think it's less of an issue.
Thematrian1 (9:47:13 PM): ah. Yeah, ok; there's some question of how much is filled in by her. And of course, even as a teen/adult she's had lots of practice filling in what gaps there may be.
MilesMk1 (9:47:15 PM): The stuff done with nano makes sense just fine.
MilesMk1 (9:48:04 PM): And I really like the whole neo-victorian feel. Not saying I'd want to live it, but it's one of the more interesting near-future scenarios I've read.
Thematrian1 (9:48:05 PM): Oh, I agree. But you have to suppose nano first. It's like solving computer vision by assuming strong AI.
Thematrian1 (9:48:16 PM): indeed; one of Stephenson's great strengths.
MilesMk1 (9:49:25 PM): Although lately, I've been reading a lot of Steven Erikson.
Thematrian1 (9:49:37 PM): I know him not.
MilesMk1 (9:50:06 PM): I have Stephenson's Quicksilver sitting on a shelf, but haven't been able to get through it, sadly. He went a little overboard there, I thought.
Umbrafer (9:50:34 PM): How so?
MilesMk1 (9:50:37 PM): Erikson has only had one book published in the US so far, but has been a pretty big fantasy hit in the UK and Canada, from what I gather.
Thematrian1 (9:50:41 PM): I'm told it takes off like a rocket about three hundred pages in. I own the book, but it has defeated me twice. ::Shame::
Umbrafer (9:51:10 PM): Xenocide has done that to me twice as well
MilesMk1 (9:51:20 PM): It's just impossibly dense, and hundreds of pages into it there's still no clear sense of what the damn *story* is, and where it's going.
Umbrafer (9:51:27 PM): I did manage Speaker for the Dead a few years back, though.
MilesMk1 (9:51:54 PM): I got further than 300 pages in, and I still didn't see a coherent story coalescing, and I usually don't mind slow starters...
MilesMk1 (9:52:14 PM): I guess I'll try it again sometimes.
MilesMk1 (9:52:17 PM): sometime.
Thematrian1 (9:52:38 PM): oh. Hm. It's one of those things I must read eventually, if only to be able to converse intelligently about it.
MilesMk1 (9:54:08 PM): Erikson's books are fantasy - insanely high "power level", huge amounts of magic, enormous scope, things happen that don't have relevance until about 2000 pages later
MilesMk1 (9:54:41 PM): but he makes it work.
Thematrian1 (9:54:46 PM): oh heavens. What's the literary equivalent of replay value?
Umbrafer (9:55:18 PM): If he's able to do things that don't have relevance for two thousand pages at anything but the very beginning, you can probably start right over once you reach the end
Thematrian1 (9:55:25 PM): can you give me a title or two?
Umbrafer (9:55:30 PM): The start will have been forgotten
Umbrafer (9:55:44 PM): (That happened to me with the first book of the Wheel of Time)
MilesMk1 (9:55:54 PM): He's sort of the the anti-Robert Jordan, there's tons of new stuff in every one. I think I'll need to re-read them from the beginning to make sure I pick up on all the details. ;)
Thematrian1 (9:55:58 PM): C.J. Cherryh is my standard for 'books that you have to pay attention to the whole time'
MilesMk1 (9:56:07 PM): The series is called "Malazan Books of the Fallen"
Umbrafer (9:56:31 PM): Heh. I never did manage to cotton on to Cherryh
MilesMk1 (9:56:32 PM): The first one is by far the weakest (and shortest) he doesn't quite hit his stride there.
MilesMk1 (9:56:37 PM): It's called...
Thematrian1 (9:56:47 PM): ::supplies a drum-roll::
MilesMk1 (9:57:02 PM): Heh... Nah, I had to go look it up.
MilesMk1 (9:57:06 PM): Gardens of the Moon.
Thematrian1 (9:57:39 PM): ::nod:: thank you
MilesMk1 (9:57:40 PM): Then Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, House of Chains, and I don't remember the last one.
MilesMk1 (9:58:15 PM): I've been enjoying them, but I've ran into a lot of people who have a sort of love/hate relationship with them.
Thematrian1 (9:58:31 PM): ?
MilesMk1 (9:58:32 PM): Love/hate reaction, rather.
MilesMk1 (9:59:03 PM): I've met people who liked them a lot, and people who couldn't stand them, but no one who thought they were "ok".
Thematrian1 (9:59:09 PM): aaah
MilesMk1 (10:01:01 PM): If you like your fantasy subtle and LotR-like... Well, this beats the Forgotten Realms a couple times over in terms of absurdly powerful beings, but has a coherence to it. (IMO)
MilesMk1 (10:01:29 PM): And let it not be said I'm comparing it to D&D novels in an real way. ;)
Thematrian1 (10:01:30 PM): I take my fantasy as it comes. If he can make it work...
Thematrian1 (10:01:38 PM): oh, I certainly didn't think so
Umbrafer (10:03:49 PM): There were some not-so-terrible D&D novels.
Thematrian1 (10:04:14 PM): admittedly, my experience is limited to one I bought at a library sale when I was ten. Still...
Umbrafer (10:04:17 PM): Of course, unless you get really lucky you needed to wade quite far to find out.
Umbrafer (10:04:44 PM): I need to read more of the Shadowrun novels.
Thematrian1 (10:04:58 PM): someone on SotSW should. You're it.
Umbrafer (10:05:10 PM): Hehehe
MilesMk1 (10:05:10 PM): Haven't read any... I tend to be kind of dubious about RPG-themed novels.
MilesMk1 (10:05:34 PM): I blame the person who lent me Dragonlance.
Umbrafer (10:06:10 PM): Heh
Thematrian1 (10:06:26 PM): that's a good person to blame. It's odd; Weis-Hickman have some nice novels (I'm thinking of the Haplo books, or Darksword), and I enjoyed them at the time, but they no longer impress
Umbrafer (10:06:41 PM): I enjoyed those original three Dragonlance books, though I have no illusions that that was because of significant literary merit.
Umbrafer (10:08:40 PM): Technobabel was a surprisingly decent book considering the utterly atrocious cover art and tagline.
Thematrian1 (10:08:51 PM): Just so. For old times' sake I re-read the Autumn one, intending to re-read the others too
Thematrian1 (10:08:54 PM): Technobabel?
Umbrafer (10:09:22 PM): Shadowrun novel. Largely about Deus' pre-Shutdown machinations.
Umbrafer (10:10:59 PM): Tagline was "Cyberspace mercenaries go to war!"
Umbrafer (10:11:13 PM): Book sat on my shelf for almost a year because of that line. Fortunately, it had little to do with the contents.
Umbrafer (10:11:39 PM): There was plenty of cyberspace. Arguably all Shadowrunners are mercenaries of a sort. War? Not so much.
MilesMk1 (10:11:44 PM): I could kill some of the people who design covers for fantasy and sci-fi books.
Thematrian1 (10:12:01 PM): leave me Michael Whelan, and you can have the rest
Umbrafer (10:12:08 PM): What'd he do?
MilesMk1 (10:12:16 PM): One of my favorite authors, Lois McMaster Bujold, has had such atrocious art on some of here early books...
Thematrian1 (10:12:54 PM): ::sings the praises of Lois McMaster Bujold::
Thematrian1 (10:12:59 PM): I'm actually ok with the early ones;
MilesMk1 (10:13:25 PM): ? Have you seen the actual first cover for "Warrior's Apprentice"?
Thematrian1 (10:13:37 PM): they went through a phase where they showed two faces up close, and some stuff in the background, and I hated that, but thankfully it's gone
Thematrian1 (10:14:07 PM): I don't know. ::think:: lady in a red dress, short-ish guy in a station chair. Nothing inspired, but I didn't hate it.
MilesMk1 (10:14:16 PM): That one...
MilesMk1 (10:14:23 PM): It was done for a different book.
MilesMk1 (10:14:35 PM): They just threw in Miles in the chair, and used it.
Thematrian1 (10:15:40 PM): ...I did not know that. That's pretty reprehensible behavior. I guess I should be impressed it works at all, then.
Umbrafer (10:16:31 PM): What was the different book, out of interest?
MilesMk1 (10:17:50 PM): No clue. Some sci-fi book that required an illustration with a "hero" in tight leather pants, and a sleevless red shirt open to his navel, with a medallion hanging in the opening, embracing a woman in a cocktail dress
Umbrafer (10:18:05 PM): Hehehe
MilesMk1 (10:18:14 PM): and high heels, on the bridge of some space ship, with badly drawn spaceships in the background.
Thematrian1 (10:18:36 PM): heh. I'd completely forgotten about the guy embracing the lady
Thematrian1 (10:18:46 PM): my mental image of the cover simply fails to include him
MilesMk1 (10:18:52 PM): I think they were adapted to represent Bas and Elena. :)
Thematrian1 (10:19:39 PM): I got the Elena part...still can't remember the guy. Probably subliminally assumed it was Ivan, even though that makes no sense in the context of the stoyr.
Thematrian1 (10:19:55 PM): 'stoyr' is a really interesting-looking word.
MilesMk1 (10:20:23 PM): BTW, Jon, we're talking about a engineer/deserter, and a tough-as-nails girl who wanted to be a soldier.
MilesMk1 (10:20:34 PM): Vorstoyr...
MilesMk1 (10:20:42 PM): Sounds Barrayaran.
Umbrafer (10:20:44 PM): *Nods*
Umbrafer (10:21:02 PM): *Looks at a picture of the cover* I can see how it would fit absolutely perfectly, then.
Umbrafer (10:21:05 PM): *Flat tone*
MilesMk1 (10:21:13 PM): I think Adam isn't coming.
Thematrian1 (10:21:25 PM): although, in fairness, she was raised as a sort of foster noblewoman, not a mercenary. The dress impossible, just really weird for the time that the scene would have to happen.
Thematrian1 (10:21:28 PM): I think you're right.
Umbrafer (10:21:29 PM): That's probably a good assumption at this point.
Thematrian1 (10:21:42 PM): Jon, would you torture him or something the next time you see him?
MilesMk1 (10:22:02 PM): Although do you see Elena *clinging* to someone like that?
Umbrafer (10:22:14 PM): Maybe I'll show him this cover.
Umbrafer (10:22:22 PM): Enough of a torture?
Thematrian1 (10:23:15 PM): like I said, I can't remember the guy at all. But going solely by his outfit... ;-)
MilesMk1 (10:23:28 PM): He's from Ethos?
Umbrafer (10:23:30 PM): It is quite the outfit.
MilesMk1 (10:23:55 PM): I'm sorry, that was wrong. :p
Thematrian1 (10:24:07 PM): hehe, only a little.
Umbrafer (10:24:11 PM): ?
Thematrian1 (10:24:13 PM): I just re-read that one, actually.
Thematrian1 (10:24:27 PM): Athos is a planet of homosexual men, who secluded themselves from women for religious reasons
MilesMk1 (10:25:05 PM): Ack, Athos...
MilesMk1 (10:25:13 PM): Can't believe I misspelled that, too.
Thematrian1 (10:25:14 PM): although I can't see Ethan wearing anything that...uh, that
Thematrian1 (10:25:21 PM): Well, Ethan, Athos, they go together
MilesMk1 (10:25:40 PM): I doubt any of them did, unless they were color blind.
Thematrian1 (10:25:56 PM): oh, I should mention, the universe according to Bujold has artificial reproductive technology, so the civilization is not immediately doomed to extinction
Umbrafer (10:26:00 PM): Tiny man is invading Gortok's personal space!
MilesMk1 (10:26:07 PM): ?
Thematrian1 (10:26:33 PM): I second that ?
MilesMk1 (10:26:37 PM): Will they ever release the damn GURPS supplement for it?
MilesMk1 (10:26:48 PM): It's been "in the works" for ages now...
Umbrafer (10:26:49 PM): But yes, I was being surprised that the person on the cover wasn't hanging on Miles instead of whatshername.
MilesMk1 (10:26:55 PM): And I wants it.
Umbrafer (10:27:02 PM): And the personal space comment was a quote from Order of the Stick
Umbrafer (10:27:14 PM): http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=132
Thematrian1 (10:27:16 PM): it was even in playtest for a while IIRC. Closed, but still.
MilesMk1 (10:28:37 PM): I saw some of the drafts while I subscribed to Pyramid. Looked promising.
MilesMk1 (10:28:52 PM): I guess they pushed it back and will re-work it for the new edition.
Thematrian1 (10:29:12 PM): yeah. I vaguely remember hearing a February release date?
MilesMk1 (10:29:14 PM): You know, for someone who claims to hate D&D... :)
MilesMk1 (10:29:33 PM): I haven't checked lately, but let us hope...
Thematrian1 (10:29:36 PM): who him? He likes D&D. He just doesn't like the last 15 or so years of D&D
Umbrafer (10:29:42 PM): I just close my eyes and pretend it's 2nd ed.
MilesMk1 (10:31:01 PM): I'll send you the 3.5 book and a brown paper bag. ;)
Umbrafer (10:31:41 PM): I'd recognize the stench from a kilometer away. Or the differences in the rules, one or the other :)
MilesMk1 (10:33:07 PM): Ah, ok, I found the "personal space" one. :)
Umbrafer (10:33:21 PM): Er? The link should have gotten you straight there...
MilesMk1 (10:34:40 PM): There was a link? You must have posted it while I was doing a Google search for it. ;)
Umbrafer (10:34:50 PM): Hehehe
Umbrafer (10:34:56 PM): Fair enough
MilesMk1 (10:39:03 PM): That's a pretty good comic...
Thematrian1 (10:39:11 PM): Indeed it is. I like this one: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=12
Umbrafer (10:39:18 PM): Indeed. Especially considering that it is, essentially, fancy stick figures.
Thematrian1 (10:39:39 PM): does anyone else remember EGG's explanation of that?
Umbrafer (10:40:15 PM): And you're right, that is a great one. Do tell?
Umbrafer (10:41:01 PM): And I want Summon Plot Exposition
Thematrian1 (10:41:43 PM): It went something like: "It used to be that we'd say 'A seventh rank hero encountered a fifth order monster on the ninth dungeon level and attacked it with a fourth power spell', but we replaced all those words with 'level'
MilesMk1 (10:42:19 PM): http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=11 I like this one. Belkar is reminding me of a hlafling rogue I played in a Ravenloft game. :)
Thematrian1 (10:42:23 PM): ...because that was easier to understand." It's in the 1e DMG, I think. It amused me a great deal, at the time; my first inkling, at nine or so, that game designers might not be omnipotent.
Thematrian1 (10:42:34 PM): heh heh heh
MilesMk1 (10:42:36 PM): Heh.
MilesMk1 (10:42:47 PM): I mean, really reminding me.
MilesMk1 (10:43:17 PM): I'll admit our DM was easy going, but I managed to shock the bad guys into speechlesness several times.
Umbrafer (10:43:58 PM): I'm not sure about the bad guys, but IIRC Seiler here was a bit surprised to find us organlegging Sam :)
Thematrian1 (10:44:00 PM): nice. I've never successfully played a acharacter like that, but they're all kinds of fun to watch
Thematrian1 (10:44:06 PM): yeah, just a bit
Umbrafer (10:44:28 PM): "Grab his body. We can still make some cred off of this."
Umbrafer (10:44:37 PM): "Wait, how does that... !!!"
Thematrian1 (10:44:49 PM): Brain: "They're going to WHAT? With his WHAT?" Mouth: "Oh"
Thematrian1 (10:45:21 PM): hehe, I'd forgotten
Thematrian1 (10:45:26 PM): this game has been full of surprises
MilesMk1 (10:45:31 PM): You know how in Ravenloft, you get dark gifts, and there always are Dire Consequences?
Umbrafer (10:45:34 PM): I'm still vaguely saddened at not getting to use the blowtorch+squooshy ball idea.
Umbrafer (10:45:38 PM): Yep?
Thematrian1 (10:45:52 PM): I didn't, but now I do.
MilesMk1 (10:46:33 PM): His attitude to them was always "more, please". They worked for him, and he had an amazing tendency to avoid the consequences. :)
MilesMk1 (10:46:57 PM): Meanwhile, the other party members were praying to gods of light to be saved from theirs.
Umbrafer (10:47:11 PM): I never actually got to be a PC in a Ravenloft game, but I get the feeling that most of my characters would have ended up as NPCs from that chart pretty quickly.
MilesMk1 (10:47:29 PM): Oh, he should have, but he was just amazingly lucky.
MilesMk1 (10:49:58 PM): It was fun playing someone antisocial... I taught a 9 year-old girl we saved from a mad wizard how to use knives and what the vital spots (below the waist, he couldn't reach the higher ones usually) were on a human.
MilesMk1 (10:50:27 PM): Before we returned her to her parents/
MilesMk1 (10:50:32 PM): Anyhoo...
MilesMk1 (10:50:51 PM): Shall we try for anything this Thursday, or next Tuesday, or what?
Umbrafer (10:50:53 PM): Mmm, femoral arteries.
Umbrafer (10:51:09 PM): Well, I'm hoping both Thursday and Tuesday will bear fruit
Thematrian1 (10:51:13 PM): next Tuesday, definitely. Thursday...Jon?
Thematrian1 (10:51:14 PM): ah
Umbrafer (10:51:34 PM): We're pushing Thursdays back to 8:30 because that's about when Dave gets home from work, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem I hope
MilesMk1 (10:52:16 PM): Ok... I think I'll turn in for the night, then. It was good talking to you guys again.
Thematrian1 (10:52:44 PM): you too. With any luck, next week we'll be back on course.
Umbrafer (10:52:46 PM): *Nods* *Waves* Glad to see ye' didn't vanish into the mists on us
Thematrian1 (10:53:15 PM): and vice versa
MilesMk1 (10:53:17 PM): Heh... If I do, I'll send an explanation first. Good night.
MilesMk1 (10:53:22 PM): *wave*
Umbrafer (10:53:34 PM): *Waves*
MilesMk1 has left the chat room.

Umbrafer (10:53:51 PM): By the by:
Umbrafer (10:53:57 PM): I found out something quite embarrassing.
Thematrian1 (10:54:13 PM): ?
Umbrafer (10:54:53 PM): I've been having an easier time than warranted on sensor checks for, well, pretty much the entire game. It turns out direct LOS is only -2 on Sensor tests. The -3 is only on Sensor-Enhanced Gunnery.
Thematrian1 (10:55:29 PM): ah. You know, I like Shadowrun, but the ruleset is like a bear trap
Umbrafer (10:55:43 PM): So very true.
Umbrafer (10:56:11 PM): Still, the combination of rules and story give me the answer to one of my great dilemmas.
Thematrian1 (10:56:26 PM): ?
Umbrafer (10:56:49 PM): You see, I never thought a single game could be talked about as much as we talk about Shadowrun on Dumpshock. But the combination of immersive storyline and Escheresque rules means that the discussion just doesn't stop.
Thematrian1 (10:57:37 PM): there is that
Thematrian1 (10:57:47 PM): but oh God, do I need to talk to Circl about Shojo
Umbrafer (10:57:58 PM): Heh. I could see that.
Thematrian1 (10:59:17 PM): hey, is it just me, or is Dumpshock down?
Umbrafer (10:59:37 PM): It is indeed down. And a bizarre coincidence makes me wonder if it might not all be my fault.
Thematrian1 (10:59:49 PM): ?
Umbrafer (10:59:59 PM): Er
Umbrafer (11:00:03 PM): If it might be, rather
Thematrian1 (11:00:19 PM): how?
Umbrafer (11:00:22 PM): Well, my earlier sentence was accurate, but misleading in text
Umbrafer (11:00:39 PM): Well, it also went down before New Years
Umbrafer (11:00:53 PM): And both that time and this time, I had accessed the Today' Top 10
Umbrafer (11:00:56 PM): sEr
Umbrafer (11:01:09 PM): *Today's Top 10 Posters bit right when it died.
Thematrian1 (11:01:22 PM): hm
Umbrafer (11:01:28 PM): I mean that I clicked the link, and from then on the forums were down.
Thematrian1 (11:01:29 PM): when it comes back up, try it again
Umbrafer (11:01:34 PM): Hehehe
Thematrian1 (11:01:40 PM): I'm serious
Umbrafer (11:01:45 PM): I know
Umbrafer (11:01:48 PM): I was planning to
Thematrian1 (11:01:57 PM): excellent. Just don't tell anyone you did ;-)
Umbrafer (11:01:58 PM): Thing is, it only did this from my work computer.
Thematrian1 (11:02:08 PM): ...uh huh
Umbrafer (11:02:14 PM): I did this from home, and nothing happened.
Umbrafer (11:02:44 PM): But nonetheless, the fact that it happened after exactly the same thing...
Umbrafer (11:02:55 PM): Well, it could just be coincidence. But it's suspicious, no?
Thematrian1 (11:03:31 PM): it is. Three times will make a pattern, or not
Umbrafer (11:03:32 PM): So if they get it up again before I resign next Wednesday (which they should, or I'm killing people), I will indeed try it again.
Thematrian1 (11:03:42 PM): uh oh. What's your job agian?
Umbrafer (11:03:50 PM): CAD operator.
Thematrian1 (11:04:08 PM): ...CAD is a program, I thought?
Umbrafer (11:04:26 PM): AutoCAD is a program. CAD itself is more of a process.
Thematrian1 (11:04:55 PM): Computer-Aided Design, sure...what do you do?
Umbrafer (11:05:22 PM): Engineers draw things on plans of buildings. I take their drawings and copy them in AutoCAD.
Umbrafer (11:05:39 PM): Basically, I make old engineers not have to learn new software.
Thematrian1 (11:05:50 PM): ...there's something very backwards about that
Thematrian1 (11:05:58 PM): that job sounds pretty mind-numbing
Umbrafer (11:06:25 PM): It's actually not so bad. If it weren't for Dumpshock, it probably would have been rather more mind-numbing, though.
Umbrafer (11:06:38 PM): That and occasionally getting side-tracked into long discussions with the IT staff.
Thematrian1 (11:07:08 PM): not that there's anything wrong with that
Umbrafer (11:07:44 PM): Come to think of it, the fact that the guy across the hall is always yelling makes it rather entertaining as well...
Umbrafer (11:07:51 PM): Except when I'm working directly under him.
Umbrafer (11:08:43 PM): But yeah. Fun while it lasted, but I can't wait to be out of there.
Thematrian1 (11:08:57 PM): ::nod:: Google is hiring
Thematrian1 (11:09:10 PM): they're paying relocation expenses to upstate new york for one summer
Umbrafer (11:09:45 PM): Shiny. 'Twould be nice, but I can't fathom what I'd have to offer them
Thematrian1 (11:10:14 PM): it's a subject of much speculation at CMU. I mean, we're us and they're Google. What do they want to do with summer interns that could possibly be worth the expense?
Umbrafer (11:10:55 PM): Come to that, you're right. Thinking outside of my personal lack of value to add, I can't fathom what any intern would be able to offer worth relocation expenses.
Umbrafer (11:11:15 PM): Hell, a decent number of professionals wouldn't get that without five years' experience at least
Umbrafer (11:11:25 PM): Especially not for a summer
Thematrian1 (11:11:40 PM): and yet, they're taking people. And they've been exceedingly close-mouthed as to why
Thematrian1 (11:11:51 PM): I'm applying, of course, but I doubt very much that I'll get in
Umbrafer (11:12:02 PM): No! I've figured it out!
Umbrafer (11:12:11 PM): *Whispers* Insect Spirits
Thematrian1 (11:12:41 PM): A much better cover than the universal brotherhood
Umbrafer (11:13:42 PM): If they do end up taking you, make sure to check in every so often to let us know you aren't in a South African prison or in a slave camp on the Moon or anything.
Thematrian1 (11:14:08 PM): totally. Watch it be a front for a military project or something
Umbrafer (11:16:02 PM): http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=30 << I've had days like that
Thematrian1 (11:16:37 PM): heh
Umbrafer (11:22:22 PM): One of which was today, and another of which will be tomorrow if I don't get some sleep.
Umbrafer (11:22:30 PM): Take care, and I'll talk to you Thursday.
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Chat room exited at 1/4/2005 11:23:09 PM.