New chat room entered at 3/10/2005 8:30:09 PM.
You are now in chat room “Fun with Lwa.”
Thematrian1 has entered the chat room.

Thematrian1 (8:31:24 PM): so, I hit them
Umbrafer (8:32:02 PM): Give me a brief refresher of where you were jacking in, etc. while I dig up the stats.
Thematrian1 (8:32:11 PM): I was working through Scavengers' van
Umbrafer (8:32:20 PM): *Nods*
Umbrafer (8:32:35 PM): Mmk.
Thematrian1 (8:32:43 PM): I'd given the security, um, half an hour IIRC, to calm back down
Umbrafer (8:32:47 PM): Yep
Umbrafer (8:33:05 PM): You think it's probably pretty calmed down right now.
Umbrafer (8:33:11 PM): Logon to host?
Thematrian1 (8:33:13 PM): all right, then I'm heading back
Thematrian1 (8:33:14 PM): yep
Thematrian1 (8:33:41 PM): I have seven hacking pool, six of which goes to increasing my DF from 7 to 10
Umbrafer (8:34:05 PM): Gotcha. Roule.
Thematrian1 (8:34:18 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 1 3 4 4 5 4 3
Thematrian1 (8:34:28 PM): I have the relevant utility at 6
Umbrafer (8:34:42 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 5 4 6 2 5 3
Umbrafer (8:34:46 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 3
Umbrafer (8:34:55 PM): Cakewalk. You slide in like greased butter.
Thematrian1 (8:35:03 PM): ::slurp::
Umbrafer (8:35:58 PM): A familiar scene is before you. Rather little seems to have changed aside from the location of a potted plant.
Thematrian1 (8:36:05 PM): tisk, tisk
Thematrian1 (8:36:21 PM): ok, this time I want pictures of the head honchos, and building plans if they've got them.
Umbrafer (8:36:37 PM): Searching?
Thematrian1 (8:37:11 PM): yep
Thematrian1 (8:37:14 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 4 5 1 5 4 1 1
Thematrian1 (8:37:21 PM): Browse at 6
Thematrian1 (8:37:28 PM): sigh
Umbrafer (8:38:21 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 2 1 6 1 3 2
Umbrafer (8:38:33 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 4
Umbrafer (8:39:32 PM): You search around a bit, but aside from the promotional pictures in the public area you don't find anything.
Thematrian1 (8:39:48 PM): meh. I try again
Thematrian1 (8:39:50 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 6 1 2 4 4 6 2
Thematrian1 (8:39:53 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 5 4
Umbrafer (8:40:05 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 5 5 5 1 4 4
Umbrafer (8:40:48 PM): Scant seconds later, you find some plans for the building, apparently intended for display on all viewscreens during an evacuation.
Thematrian1 (8:42:01 PM): nice. What about the honcho pictures, or is that a separate roll? Stuff from an outing or the like would be great.
Umbrafer (8:42:57 PM): You haven't found any honcho pictures other than the promotional ones on the company website. You can keep searching, if you want.
Thematrian1 (8:43:09 PM): I think I will, yes
Thematrian1 (8:43:12 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 6 1 2 2 1 6 2
Thematrian1 (8:43:15 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 5 4
Umbrafer (8:43:16 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 5 2 1 6 5 1
Umbrafer (8:43:19 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 6
Umbrafer (8:43:21 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 2
Umbrafer (8:44:24 PM): You do dig up some old pictures from a company ski trip (not much here) and an office paintball excursion (a few candid shots)
Thematrian1 (8:45:19 PM): ::nod::
Thematrian1 (8:45:24 PM): Now, what else was I in here for...?
Umbrafer (8:46:23 PM): Incidentally, why are you here twice?
Thematrian1 (8:47:01 PM): because the first time, I built up some tally and I'm not set up for cybercombat
Umbrafer (8:47:10 PM): No, not that
Umbrafer (8:47:16 PM): In the chatroom, you appear to be here twice.
Umbrafer (8:47:27 PM): "Three people here: Thematrian1, Thematrian1, Umbrafer"
Thematrian1 (8:47:37 PM): oh
Thematrian1 (8:47:44 PM): my client disagrees
Thematrian1 (8:47:51 PM): let me leave, and see what's up
Thematrian1 has left the chat room.

Thematrian1 has entered the chat room.

Thematrian1 (8:49:58 PM): neat
Vernjonal has entered the chat room.

Umbrafer (8:50:13 PM): I discovered that way back during the D&D games.
Umbrafer (8:50:39 PM): (Namely, that each name is a distinct chat, and that no two chats have the same name)
Umbrafer (8:50:55 PM): We'd had a game with the topic "Gameness" and a bunch of random people showed up.
Umbrafer (8:51:29 PM): Anyway. Any further thoughts from either of you on what to do with your system access?
Thematrian1 (8:52:06 PM): yeah
Thematrian1 (8:52:08 PM): cameras
Thematrian1 (8:52:18 PM): If I find them now, can I find them again without a roll on some later run?
Umbrafer (8:52:52 PM): I'll say that unless they're implementing certain specific security features the answer is yes.
Thematrian1 (8:52:58 PM): fair enough
Thematrian1 (8:53:02 PM): I want their security cameras
Thematrian1 (8:53:06 PM): or, you know
Thematrian1 (8:53:09 PM): the locations thereof
Thematrian1 (8:53:12 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 1 1 1 6 6 1 3
Thematrian1 (8:53:16 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 5 4
Thematrian1 (8:53:18 PM): wow
Thematrian1 (8:53:22 PM): that 5 4 sure does love me tonight
Umbrafer (8:54:03 PM): Indeed
Umbrafer (8:54:10 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 3 6 6 1 6 6
Umbrafer (8:54:14 PM): (Wow)
Umbrafer (8:54:27 PM): Umbrafer rolled 4 6-sided dice: 1 5 6 4
Umbrafer (8:54:30 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 2
Umbrafer (8:54:57 PM): You get absolutely nowhere. At points your searching even bogs a bit, like there's something interfering with it.
Thematrian1 (8:56:34 PM): bah. I know they exist. I'll give it one more try
Thematrian1 (8:56:37 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 3 6 2 4 5 6 4
Thematrian1 (8:56:40 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 4 3
Umbrafer (8:57:13 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 6 3 6 1 2 5
Umbrafer (8:57:17 PM): Umbrafer rolled 2 6-sided dice: 2 2
Umbrafer (8:57:32 PM): You don't find anything, but you've got leads.
Thematrian1 (8:58:20 PM): leads. I like leads. I follow up on my leads
Thematrian1 (8:58:23 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 6 2 4 1 5 2 1
Thematrian1 (8:58:25 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 3
Thematrian1 (8:58:35 PM): (DF 10, don't fail me now)
Umbrafer (8:59:32 PM): Umbrafer rolled 6 6-sided dice: 6 4 3 6 6 3
Umbrafer (8:59:36 PM): Umbrafer rolled 3 6-sided dice: 6 2 2
Umbrafer (8:59:40 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 2
Thematrian1 (9:00:06 PM): (don't, I said)
Umbrafer (9:00:11 PM): You're looking for something showing the physical locations of the cameras?
Thematrian1 (9:00:47 PM): I just want to find them so that I can spoof them later, if needed
Umbrafer (9:00:53 PM): Ah, the controls for them.
Umbrafer (9:00:56 PM): You've found that.
Thematrian1 (9:01:26 PM): good for me.
Umbrafer (9:02:17 PM): (Keep in mind that unless you're being attacked by it, you'll need to Locate IC to find any triggered IC)
Thematrian1 (9:02:33 PM): I am aware.
Thematrian1 (9:02:37 PM): Hence the delay
Thematrian1 (9:02:45 PM): The only IC I really fear is Trace
SheePFroMThEDeeP is not online, and therefore cannot chat.

MilesMk1 has entered the chat room.

CirclMastr has entered the chat room.

CirclMastr (9:03:50 PM): Lwa?
CirclMastr (9:04:07 PM): League of Wendigo Activists?
Thematrian1 (9:04:28 PM): Yeah, it's time anyway. Graceful Logoff
Umbrafer (9:04:31 PM): Just FYI, you're decking through Scavengers' van, so that means they can at best trace back to the satellite cluster you're on.
Thematrian1 (9:04:31 PM): Thematrian1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 3 4 5 1 4 4 5
Thematrian1 (9:04:38 PM): hm
Umbrafer (9:04:44 PM): Satellite decking is teh win.
Thematrian1 (9:05:00 PM): I guess I fear no IC at all, then. But it'd be best to leave few/no tracks
Umbrafer (9:06:24 PM): And here I take a moment to call our new players and see where they are.
CirclMastr (9:10:00 PM): They hates us, preciousss..
Thematrian1 (9:10:35 PM): yeah, probably
Thematrian1 (9:10:50 PM): I know where the cameras are, so turning them off at the right time shouldn't prove too difficult
Umbrafer (9:11:16 PM): Well, they've apparently implemented password protection on their cellphone or something, but I've paged them.
Thematrian1 (9:13:46 PM): The other half of the scouting mission, with the itsy-bitsy walker...was that ifnished?
Umbrafer (9:14:00 PM): *Weep* No.
Umbrafer (9:18:25 PM): Hrm.
Umbrafer (9:18:30 PM): Ungood.
Umbrafer (9:19:55 PM): There's not much we can reasonably do without them at this point, particularly Scavengers. If they don't show up soon we may have to call.
Umbrafer (9:20:07 PM): (Call the session, rather; I'm calling again on the phone right now)
MilesMk1 (9:21:33 PM): Bah.
Thematrian1 (9:21:38 PM): indeed
MilesMk1 (9:22:03 PM): So, are we ready to go in, or what? Has it been decided what my role is to be in this plan?
Thematrian1 (9:22:28 PM): I think I have the cameras. Your job #1 would be handle any guards without killing them
CirclMastr (9:23:53 PM): We have a plan?
Umbrafer (9:25:11 PM): Well, that'd be a good thing to use this time for.
Thematrian1 (9:25:15 PM): Of sorts
Thematrian1 (9:25:19 PM): I have a map of the complex
Umbrafer (9:25:21 PM): To whatever extent you can plan sans Rigger and houngan
Thematrian1 (9:25:29 PM): not incredible
MilesMk1 (9:25:30 PM): I can do that, I think.
Thematrian1 (9:25:35 PM): but a map
MilesMk1 (9:25:55 PM): I did it with the gangers - as long as these guys aren't incredible pros, I should be able to...
Umbrafer (9:27:32 PM): (In the night, the staff have all been replaced with Ares Firewatch members…)
Thematrian1 (9:27:50 PM): (Right, but are they professionals? ;-))
Umbrafer (9:28:02 PM): (AFAIK, Ares Firewatch is the only corp team to be rated Ultimate :) )
Thematrian1 (9:29:54 PM): So the idea is is. Glitch and MacLeod go in. I'm doing decker overwatch. The rigger sends a drone if they're quiet enough. The houngan goes with you for magical support.
MilesMk1 (9:30:58 PM): Sounds good so far. Stunballs and concussion grenades for everyone!
MilesMk1 (9:31:13 PM): Can Macleod disable people without killing?
Umbrafer (9:31:25 PM): Without maiming, too.
CirclMastr (9:31:29 PM): I can?
MilesMk1 (9:31:43 PM): We need to get him a bokken.
CirclMastr (9:31:44 PM): I suppose I could whack them with the katana in its saya, or something.
CirclMastr (9:31:52 PM): But that would be Clubs
MilesMk1 (9:31:56 PM): Heh...
MilesMk1 (9:32:03 PM): Gotta love SR rules sometimes. :)
CirclMastr (9:32:07 PM): Yeah.
Thematrian1 (9:32:12 PM): default from edged? It's not like they're epic opponents
CirclMastr (9:32:17 PM): I love how it REINFORCES that stupidity, too.
MilesMk1 (9:32:28 PM): Reinforces it?
CirclMastr (9:32:40 PM): That one silly weapon in CC, a stick with jagged shards attached.
CirclMastr (9:32:57 PM): The entry for the weapon says it uses Edged Weapons, but if all the shards come off it uses Clubs.
CirclMastr (9:33:08 PM): IT'S THE SAME DAMN WEAPONS, WHY DO I NEED TWO SKILLS?
Thematrian1 (9:33:13 PM): The hard part is picking a guy to intimidate.
Umbrafer (9:33:19 PM): Because it's no longer the same weapon?
Thematrian1 (9:33:21 PM): The Maclatl? some name like that
Thematrian1 (9:33:25 PM): actually, I could see that
Umbrafer (9:33:33 PM): I've already ruled that bokken can be used with edged weapons, by the by.
CirclMastr (9:33:55 PM): Explain to me how someone who wields a katana is somehow worse with a bokken.
CirclMastr (9:33:58 PM): Oh
CirclMastr (9:34:06 PM): Then someone buy me a booken >_>
Umbrafer (9:34:10 PM): The weight and balance are completely different?
Umbrafer (9:34:19 PM): I own a very good bokken. I would never mistake it for a katana.
Umbrafer (9:34:38 PM): They're as similar as they can reasonably get, but there are still some pretty huge differences.
Thematrian1 (9:34:49 PM): (Yeah, but a katana also has radically different balance/technique than a knife)
Umbrafer (9:34:55 PM): (That's true)
CirclMastr (9:35:01 PM): More different than wielding a claymore vs. combat knife?
CirclMastr (9:35:04 PM): Yeah
CirclMastr (9:35:07 PM): I suck at typing
Umbrafer (9:35:08 PM): Claymores are polearms.
CirclMastr (9:35:12 PM): They are?
Umbrafer (9:35:16 PM): In Shadowrun.
CirclMastr (9:35:18 PM): ...
Umbrafer (9:35:26 PM): They're wielded more like polearms than swords IRL, so I think it's reasonable.
CirclMastr (9:35:28 PM): Replace with jatana then.
CirclMastr (9:35:32 PM): *katana
CirclMastr (9:36:18 PM): jatana, it's a katana and a... um... are there any weapons that start with J?
Umbrafer (9:36:24 PM): Jutte.
MilesMk1 (9:36:28 PM): Picking a guy to intimidate? To send our message, you mean?
CirclMastr (9:36:30 PM): I don't know what that is/.
Thematrian1 (9:36:31 PM): right
Thematrian1 (9:36:35 PM): we need a high-ranker
Thematrian1 (9:36:38 PM): I have a list of those
Thematrian1 (9:36:44 PM): and some pictures from a paintball outing
Umbrafer (9:36:48 PM): But then there's also the argument that, on semi-auto, an assault rifle should be nearly identical to a sporting rifle when being used.
Thematrian1 (9:36:53 PM): ::puts those up on the van monitors, if I can::
Umbrafer (9:37:07 PM): http://www.mantisswords.com/tantos.htm
MilesMk1 (9:37:07 PM): Well, that's because it should.
Umbrafer (9:37:10 PM): Second row of pictures
Umbrafer (9:37:34 PM): Indeed it should. The SR rules don't reflect that, though.
Umbrafer (9:37:40 PM): But divisions had to be made.
Umbrafer (9:37:59 PM): (I'm personally not a fan of the SR2 style of handling it)
MilesMk1 (9:38:00 PM): SMG, Rifle and Shotgun are basically the same skill on semi-auto. (provided you have military sights on the shotgun)
Thematrian1 (9:38:14 PM): (And if you're a runner, why wouldn't you?)
Umbrafer (9:38:30 PM): I had not realized that SMG and Shotgun would be so similar
MilesMk1 (9:38:38 PM): Well...
Umbrafer (9:39:16 PM): If anything I would have pegged SMG as closer to a pistol with a stock than a rifle or shotgun
MilesMk1 (9:39:20 PM): There are enough differences between some SMGs that to say they're the same, but a shotgun is different because it has a different shape makes little sense.
Umbrafer (9:39:21 PM): But I've never used one
MilesMk1 (9:39:31 PM): Nah...
MilesMk1 (9:39:45 PM): Real SMGs (not machine pistols) shoot pretty much like a light assault rifle.
Umbrafer (9:39:53 PM): Interesting.
MilesMk1 (9:40:01 PM): No appreciable difference in size or felt recoil.
Thematrian1 (9:41:21 PM): So the hard part is, basically, stalking a guy who's important and hitting him when he's in the facility after hours.
Thematrian1 (9:41:24 PM): Fortunately
Thematrian1 (9:41:38 PM): we don't need to do the run tonight. In fact, we were told not to
MilesMk1 (9:42:11 PM): It'd be good to have a rigger for the stalking.
Thematrian1 (9:42:17 PM): yeah
MilesMk1 (9:42:22 PM): The way I do it tends to be a little out of place on city streets.
Thematrian1 (9:42:26 PM): hah
Thematrian1 (9:42:38 PM): Yeah, "from a thousand feet up" is definitely the right way here
Thematrian1 (9:44:34 PM): I show the pictures, and try to map them to names and titles.
Thematrian1 (9:44:39 PM): "Any preferences?"
MilesMk1 (9:48:10 PM): "As to who we keep to give the message to?"
MilesMk1 (9:48:24 PM): "Who we stalk, I mean?"
Thematrian1 (9:49:00 PM): Right
Thematrian1 (9:49:01 PM): "Right"
MilesMk1 (9:51:41 PM): "Probably someone without a family - should be easier to get to, more likely to be at work late..."
MilesMk1 (9:51:56 PM): "What are our choices?"
Thematrian1 (9:53:17 PM): Jon?
Umbrafer (9:53:32 PM): Ah yes, this would be my cue, wouldn't it.
Umbrafer (9:54:16 PM): Well, the company bios provide no hint of family status. One of the Big Wigs is clearly wearing a wedding ring on one of the pictures, but aside from that you can't determine marital status from what you have.
Umbrafer (9:54:29 PM): How big do you want your wigs?
CirclMastr (9:54:41 PM): He just wears it to attract women attracted to married men.
Thematrian1 (9:54:45 PM): start with the biggest, work our way down
Umbrafer (9:55:03 PM): How many steps down?
Thematrian1 (9:55:28 PM): Top four, go from there
Umbrafer (9:57:15 PM): Wig 1 is indeterminate. Wig 2 is the guy with the visible ring. Wig 3 is indeterminate. Wig 4 is clearly not wearing a ring, though he may have removed it for the paintball. Wig 3 is female, by the by.
Umbrafer (9:59:14 PM): And, for what it's worth, Wig 4 is a Dwarf.
MilesMk1 (9:59:29 PM): Hmm...
CirclMastr (9:59:41 PM): A surprisingly open-minded wigginess.
Umbrafer (10:00:14 PM): Keep in mind that these are just the wigs that report to this particular facility. Presumably there is an owning company with its own, even bigger wigs.
Umbrafer (10:00:19 PM): *-,
MilesMk1 (10:00:34 PM): Huh.
MilesMk1 (10:01:02 PM): Well, does it really matter? We should probably take a look at all of them, to see which ones actually tend to work late, rather than pick one blindly.
Thematrian1 (10:01:28 PM): makes sense
Thematrian1 (10:01:46 PM): what time is it?
MilesMk1 (10:02:05 PM): And we're not killing or maiming any of them, so secondary considerations are minimal (Glitch isn't admitting it, but he'd prefer not to hurt someone with a spouse and kids.)
Umbrafer (10:02:46 PM): It's probably post-midnight
CirclMastr (10:02:58 PM): If no one's being hurt, why is MacLeod coming along again?
Thematrian1 (10:03:07 PM): People are being intimidated
Umbrafer (10:03:09 PM): To make people think they're going to get hurt
Thematrian1 (10:03:10 PM): and stuff is getting broken
CirclMastr (10:03:45 PM): 12 year olds are rarely imposing, even if they have giant swords.
Thematrian1 (10:04:11 PM): I think we can make it work. You're sure scarier than Gem
MilesMk1 (10:06:54 PM): Doesn't Macleod want to break some stuff?
MilesMk1 (10:07:30 PM): Besides, he's also coming along so that he can kill things when it all goes to shit and the Dire Secret of this particular run is revealed. ;)
Thematrian1 (10:08:21 PM): (Hey, that's my schtick)
Umbrafer (10:08:23 PM): (It's like the doggie run, only with Devil Rats)
CirclMastr (10:08:41 PM): The Dire Secret is, MacLeod can't run fast enough. That's my guess. I'll start on a new character next week.
Umbrafer (10:08:47 PM): (Or maybe Demon Rats, so they can summon Devil Rats)
MilesMk1 (10:08:59 PM): (Don't remind me about the dogs...)
MilesMk1 (10:09:11 PM): Are you serious about the new character thing?
CirclMastr (10:09:21 PM): No
Umbrafer (10:09:39 PM): Not unless he dies or is encased in solid substance and dropped in the sound.
MilesMk1 (10:12:34 PM): Ah. Good.
MilesMk1 (10:12:57 PM): Well... I guess the new players aren't showing, and there's not much we can do without them, right?
Thematrian1 (10:13:07 PM): We need the rigger, at least.
Thematrian1 (10:13:11 PM): The houngan is optional for now
Umbrafer (10:13:52 PM): Indeed. Barring further plan discussion, all are dismissed until next week (Tuesday for some)
CirclMastr (10:14:17 PM): Poor MacLeod
MilesMk1 (10:14:32 PM): He'll get to see action yet.
CirclMastr (10:14:57 PM): Are you kidding? Who would do a 12 year old? ....Oh wait, other kind of action...
Thematrian1 (10:15:05 PM): So, the new rules for vampire are broken beyond belief
CirclMastr (10:15:07 PM): (insert Michael Jackson joke here)
Thematrian1 (10:15:25 PM): And my talent for randomly picking pregenerated characters far more powerful than they should be asserts itself once gain.
MilesMk1 (10:15:36 PM): Well... He does seem to be trying to get to know Gem better? ;)
MilesMk1 (10:15:42 PM): How are the rules broken?
Thematrian1 (10:15:52 PM): Dominate
Thematrian1 (10:15:56 PM): more specifically, Mesmerize
MilesMk1 (10:16:00 PM): Yeah?
Thematrian1 (10:16:08 PM): well, and about thirty million other things, but I only got to play with mesmerize
Umbrafer (10:16:14 PM): Do tell?
CirclMastr (10:16:23 PM): I only skimmed the powers.
Thematrian1 (10:16:26 PM): yeah. I roll Intelligence+Expression+Dominate, my victim rolls Resolve
CirclMastr (10:16:33 PM): .....................................
MilesMk1 (10:16:33 PM): Ah.
Thematrian1 (10:16:35 PM): So all else held equal, I get three times their dice
Umbrafer (10:16:36 PM): As I remember, that
Umbrafer (10:16:39 PM): 's bad.
CirclMastr (10:16:40 PM): Yeah, that's pretty damn broken
Thematrian1 (10:16:43 PM): if they're a vampire, they also get blood potency
Thematrian1 (10:16:54 PM): which for other new vampires is one extra die
Thematrian1 (10:16:57 PM): to put this in perspective
CirclMastr (10:16:58 PM): Potency sucks at chargen
Thematrian1 (10:17:09 PM): I have about a 60% chance of Mesmerizing the prince, straight out of the box
MilesMk1 (10:17:14 PM): Are there any rules for maintaining eye contact, or something? The old ones had it, I think, making Dominate a lot weaker...
Thematrian1 (10:17:30 PM): You have to start with eye contact
Thematrian1 (10:17:33 PM): after that, no
MilesMk1 (10:17:48 PM): Can it be used in combat, or is that too chaotic?
Thematrian1 (10:17:57 PM): "Kill yourself." isn't an acceptable mesmerism, but"come over here and let me kill you" is fine.
Thematrian1 (10:18:01 PM): You get -1 die in combat
MilesMk1 (10:18:10 PM): That's it? That's... Silly.
CirclMastr (10:18:16 PM): Yeah.
MilesMk1 (10:18:30 PM): Yeah, statistics were never a strong point of whoever it was that wrote the White Wolf rules.
Umbrafer (10:18:45 PM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (10:18:55 PM): Ah, the old skill-irrelevant TN 9s and 10s.
Umbrafer (10:20:14 PM): I need to pick up a copy of Paranoia XP and run a game.
MilesMk1 (10:20:38 PM): From the stupid rule of 1 they had, to the way skill levels didn't match their descriptions even remotely (like them saying 5 dice in something meant you were world class) to all the other stupid exploitable things...
Umbrafer (10:21:18 PM): As I remember, 5 dice wasn't just world-class but godlike. 3 or 4 dice was world-class.
Thematrian1 (10:21:24 PM): Yeah, they were explaining TN10+ to me
Umbrafer (10:21:27 PM): Normal human was something silly like 1 or 2.
Thematrian1 (10:21:32 PM): And how each 1 counters a single success
MilesMk1 (10:21:37 PM): Was it still fun, or were the rules too much of a problem?
Thematrian1 (10:21:42 PM): so if the TN is greater than 10, adding more dice increases the chance of failure
Thematrian1 (10:21:48 PM): they did fix that though
Umbrafer (10:21:55 PM): So I hear
Thematrian1 (10:22:13 PM): it was fun
MilesMk1 (10:22:31 PM): Yeah, the way 1's did that was retarded, it made it impossible to predict your chances of success and introduced wild randomness into it for no (to me) apparent reason.
Umbrafer (10:22:33 PM): Incidentally, as an announcement, I'm going to be reworking how I do TNs on a lot of stuff
Thematrian1 (10:22:34 PM): the combat with non-vampires was pretty unequal, but I guess that's how it's supposed to be
Umbrafer (10:22:47 PM): Nah, you can still predict your chances of success
MilesMk1 (10:22:52 PM): Oh yeah? What's the new way?
Umbrafer (10:22:55 PM): Just drop a tenth of every die
Thematrian1 (10:23:19 PM): yeah, the expectation is still easy
MilesMk1 (10:23:21 PM): Well, rolling a one actually costs you two successes, not one...
Umbrafer (10:23:23 PM): The new way is that for a lot of stuff like perception tests, etiquette rolls, etc. I'm going to be dropping the TNs nontrivially
Thematrian1 (10:23:24 PM): but the variance goes up by a lot
Umbrafer (10:23:47 PM): By the same token, though, a single success is going to be barely a success at all.
MilesMk1 (10:23:59 PM): Ok...
Umbrafer (10:24:04 PM): Three or more successes will typically be the "meaningful" threshold, with five being the "good"
MilesMk1 (10:24:16 PM): It'll be interesting to see how it'll work.
Umbrafer (10:24:19 PM): In other words, I'm bringing it back in line with the canon expectation (if you ever read some of their charts)
Umbrafer (10:24:32 PM): If you look at the adventures, a single success is often something like "yeah, I've heard of them"
Umbrafer (10:24:43 PM): Lemme grab a table
Umbrafer (10:27:05 PM): Ok, the first Etiquette test with specified results from "They Shoot Wild Horses"
Umbrafer (10:27:19 PM): Yikes!
Umbrafer (10:27:32 PM): This one has TN 9, which is way above anything I've seen in the books. Looking for another example.
Thematrian1 (10:27:56 PM): (TN 6 for me)
Thematrian1 (10:28:05 PM): (4 if I've never met them before)
Umbrafer (10:28:44 PM): The one about the Purity Brigade?
Umbrafer (10:29:13 PM): Either way. 0 successes: "
I think they are a band ... from the Tir."
Umbrafer (10:29:31 PM): One: "Sounds vaguely like one of those new religious movements."
Umbrafer (10:29:45 PM): Two: "Sounds made-up. Is it an ad campaign by one of the megacorps?"
Umbrafer (10:30:00 PM): Three: "I've heard of them, just rumors and innuendo,though-I'm not really sure they exist."
Umbrafer (10:30:09 PM): Four: If they do exist, they operate outside of standard groups. They have their own agenda, their own motives."
Umbrafer (10:30:33 PM): Five: "They are a magical group whose cause is the environment. Could be anyone, but this one is very secretive-that's for sure.
Umbrafer (10:30:48 PM): And finally, six+ successes: Unicorn shamans. That seems to be the odds on favorite to be behind the Purity Brigade.
MilesMk1 (10:31:17 PM): Heh... Well, that's what happens when people who don't understand math set TNs. :)
Umbrafer (10:31:33 PM): There are better examples, but I can't find my copy of First Run.
Umbrafer (10:31:40 PM): I'm an idiot.
MilesMk1 (10:31:50 PM): I like it, it makes it less likely for some idiot guard with INT 3 to spot me on a lucky roll.
Umbrafer (10:31:52 PM): I was just sitting next to a stack of adventures. Lemme see if I can find a better one.
MilesMk1 (10:32:18 PM): I think.
Umbrafer (10:32:42 PM): But yeah, under this system if you've got a 10 for Stealth and he rolls two 4s and a 20, he knows something's up.
Umbrafer (10:32:46 PM): Or rather, thinks.
Umbrafer (10:32:58 PM): It might be a cat, it might be a little old lady, or it might be his eyes playing tricks
Umbrafer (10:33:41 PM): If he gets a second success, he has a general idea of who you are (armed intruder, for instance)
Umbrafer (10:33:50 PM): Never mind
Umbrafer (10:34:01 PM): Second success would probably let him know metahuman or something.
Umbrafer (10:34:17 PM): Third is metahuman, probably a [metatype], possibly armed.
Umbrafer (10:34:21 PM): And four would be armed intruder.
Umbrafer (10:36:16 PM): Here we go
Umbrafer (10:36:21 PM): From Bottled Demon
Umbrafer (10:36:54 PM): (Incidentally, there's a TN 8 thing in here, but I do have to admit that it's for something the characters probably wouldn't be able to find much out about)
Umbrafer (10:37:21 PM): TN 4, any contact with Magical Theory. This is for information on the idol that is the subject of the adventure.
Umbrafer (10:37:32 PM): Successes: 0: no result./
Umbrafer (10:37:54 PM): 1: "Hey, pretty cool. Power focus of some kind? Really neat. Hey! How come I can use it? How come you can use it?"
Umbrafer (10:38:01 PM): That's 1-2, actually.
Umbrafer (10:38:50 PM): 3-4: "Um… this is very strange. I have never seen anything like it. But come to think of it, someone's been asking about a thing that looks like this. She's a two-bit fortune teller out in the Barrens. Lady by the name of Trixy."
Umbrafer (10:39:08 PM): 5+ "Chummer, I don't know what you got or where you got it, but I don't like it. Kinda gives me the chillies, you dig?"
Umbrafer (10:39:56 PM): Basically, 1-2= superficial, 3-4= meaningful information, 5+= detail.
MilesMk1 (10:41:07 PM): So is the last one an example of how you'd do it, or how an adventure did it?
Umbrafer (10:41:52 PM): That last one is how an adventure did it. Give me a piece of information you might be looking for and I'll give how I'd do it, give or take.
MilesMk1 (10:42:30 PM): So how would *you* do that one? It sounded reasonable (at TN 4, not at 8 - which one was it?)
Umbrafer (10:43:26 PM): That was TN 4. TN 8 was for a specific and rather obscure magical guy.
Umbrafer (10:43:49 PM): That particular one: 0: "It's magical and it'd probably look nice over your fireplace."
Umbrafer (10:44:17 PM): 1: "Something weird about it, can't put my finger on it."
Umbrafer (10:44:37 PM): 2: "Hey wait, I can use this. WTF? Can you use it too?"
Umbrafer (10:45:13 PM): 3: "Say, I seem to remember there was someone asking about this. Two-bit fortune teller or something."
Umbrafer (10:45:35 PM): 4: "Yeah, she lives out in the Barrens. Trixy, that's her name. She comes by once in a blue moon."
Umbrafer (10:46:02 PM): 5: "She might want to take a look at it. Me, I'd be glad to get it off my hands. Gives me the creeps."
Umbrafer (10:46:19 PM): 6+: "Whatever you do with that thing, keep it away from me."
Umbrafer (10:46:27 PM): Or some reasonable facsimile.
MilesMk1 (10:46:32 PM): Ah, ok.
Umbrafer (10:47:09 PM): It'll take some retraining to get used to the idea that for most purposes 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 59 is no longer a good roll.
MilesMk1 (10:47:19 PM): Right
MilesMk1 (10:47:29 PM): Well, sounds interesting...
MilesMk1 (10:47:56 PM): Hopefully we'll actually see it in play sometime. ;)
Umbrafer (10:48:00 PM): Hehehe
Umbrafer (10:48:04 PM): Ye of little faith ;)
MilesMk1 (10:48:13 PM): I'm gonna run - goodnight.
MilesMk1 (10:48:20 PM): Hey, I have plenty of faith.
CirclMastr (10:48:27 PM): Grenades... mmm, tasty
Umbrafer (10:48:30 PM): Sleep well.
MilesMk1 (10:48:37 PM): It might even be enough to get us through Tuesday alive...
Thematrian1 (10:48:38 PM): good night
Thematrian1 (10:48:47 PM): yeah, well, we'll see
MilesMk1 (10:48:51 PM): See you guys next week.
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Umbrafer (10:49:01 PM): Incidentally, I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't threatened legal action on Mongoose publishing.
Thematrian1 (10:49:07 PM): ?
CirclMastr (10:49:07 PM): ?
Umbrafer (10:49:51 PM): Not only did they call their latest version of Paranoia "Paranoia XP", they called their first revision "Paranoia XP SP1". They've apparently updated it from commies and mutants to include gaping cybersecurity holes.
Umbrafer (10:50:54 PM): DTRPG has a copy. I'll probably snag it when the next wave of Shadowrun books hits.
CirclMastr (10:52:02 PM): Get that light away from me! Get it away! No lights! They're coming!
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Umbrafer (10:54:11 PM): Anyone else found any good RPGs lately? The time I spend on Shadowrun does not leave much for diversification.
Thematrian1 (10:54:46 PM): I've heard good things about this Gurps game. I keep meaning to check it out.
Umbrafer (10:54:52 PM): Hehehe
CirclMastr (10:54:59 PM): Star Wars D6 is decent. But then it's Star Wars, so it's as good as the GM's liberals with the license.
Thematrian1 (10:55:04 PM): hah
Umbrafer (10:55:25 PM): I've got my copy somewhere around here. Mmm, West End Games.
CirclMastr (10:55:30 PM): Yup.
Umbrafer (10:56:39 PM): My problem with it was always that you had to either always be planetbound when combat started or have a ship for each character (or do a lot of boardings, which gets expensive for the PCs)
CirclMastr (10:57:07 PM): Well, it's what we're doing for the game in my new local group.
CirclMastr (10:57:35 PM): We ended up being given a ship to crew (the owner being a stupid NPC) and a certain role to fill.
Umbrafer (10:58:02 PM): Did you ever hear back from the local Shadowrun people in the GM/Player registry?
CirclMastr (10:58:42 PM): Yeah. The game was switched to Star Wars. See above, heh.
Umbrafer (10:59:05 PM): Ah
Umbrafer (10:59:07 PM): So it goes.
Umbrafer (10:59:25 PM): Any particular reason?
CirclMastr (11:00:08 PM): Not really.
CirclMastr (11:00:19 PM): Not that I mind.
Thematrian1 (11:00:33 PM): Wait, why do you need a ship for each character?
CirclMastr (11:00:51 PM): Because otherwise people have nothing to do.
CirclMastr (11:01:05 PM): You can have a pilot and a gunner and that's about it for cap ship requirements.
Thematrian1 (11:01:28 PM): ah, so everyone can act while traveling between stars. You still only need one to planet-hop though.
Umbrafer (11:01:31 PM): Exactly
Umbrafer (11:01:33 PM): Yeah
CirclMastr (11:01:38 PM): My group is 3 people. I'm the gunner, someone else is pilot (and a better gunner than me, since he pimped himself out), and the last is an engineer. He can... do shields, I guess.
Umbrafer (11:02:59 PM): Ah, the old "do shields, I guess" group.
Umbrafer (11:04:17 PM): I'm still waiting to see if my advice influenced the direction of the Wireless Matrix Initiative at all
CirclMastr (11:04:18 PM): Right now our number one concern is killing or ditching the NPC ship owner.
Umbrafer (11:04:24 PM): Hehehe
Thematrian1 (11:04:26 PM): haha
Umbrafer (11:04:32 PM): You noble, light-side people, you.
CirclMastr (11:04:35 PM): The problem is, he's kept the hyperdrive ignition codes for himself.
Thematrian1 (11:04:39 PM): What's wrong with 'shoot him, dump his body'...oh
Thematrian1 (11:04:42 PM): that's a good plan
Umbrafer (11:04:46 PM): Torture.
Umbrafer (11:04:59 PM): Unlike torture for confessions, you can verify this easily.
CirclMastr (11:05:00 PM): We bought a (broken, being worked on by Engi) hyperdrive, but it's x25 or something crazy like that.
CirclMastr (11:05:27 PM): Backup hyperdrive. But it's better than nothing if we need to ventilate the ship's owner.
CirclMastr (11:06:20 PM): So far he's not overly evil, though. We actually completed a mission and got paid for it. After playing under Jon, this is an amazing turn of events ;)
Umbrafer (11:06:49 PM): Oh hush :)
Umbrafer (11:07:07 PM): You completed a mission and got paid for it. The Barrens run :P
CirclMastr (11:07:31 PM): First one in SotSW history :P heh
Umbrafer (11:07:57 PM): Hardly. There was also that first run.
Umbrafer (11:08:04 PM): Though to be fair you really shouldn't have finished that one.
Thematrian1 (11:08:05 PM): (And my group has managed a few)
Umbrafer (11:08:15 PM): (That's true, you're SotSW canon too)
CirclMastr (11:09:12 PM): How's Shojo doing, btw?
Umbrafer (11:09:26 PM): Nasty headache and sulking.
CirclMastr (11:09:33 PM): Nasty headache?
Thematrian1 (11:09:41 PM): got stunball'd
CirclMastr (11:09:49 PM): Oh yeah.
Umbrafer (11:10:57 PM): I miss Doctor Funkenstein.
Thematrian1 (11:11:04 PM): why?
Umbrafer (11:11:26 PM): IMO one of the best people on Dumpshock.
CirclMastr (11:11:37 PM): "That rune painted on the floor will open the three doors in front of you and open the treasure room. We killed all the monsters inside, there's no danger."
Umbrafer (11:11:51 PM): Snarky, but usually with a point.
Umbrafer (11:11:59 PM): And he had the best names.
Thematrian1 (11:12:02 PM): Weren't you complaining about him being a troll, only slightly better than Polaris?
Umbrafer (11:12:09 PM): When was this?
Umbrafer (11:12:12 PM): Oh
Umbrafer (11:12:20 PM): No, I was citing his ability to piss people off.
Thematrian1 (11:12:23 PM): ah
Umbrafer (11:12:24 PM): He excels at that.
Umbrafer (11:12:48 PM): He just actually contributes while doing so.
Umbrafer (11:13:11 PM): Unless you bring him in contact with Raygun, in which case he's just a jerk. I have no idea why, probably history from older versions of Dumpshock.
Umbrafer (11:19:45 PM): Incidentally, would anyone like to see an additional bone lacing type, kevlar impregnated with shear thickening fluid?
Thematrian1 (11:20:13 PM): I'd never use such a thing, but its inclusion wouldn't break my heart
Umbrafer (11:20:16 PM): I'm not sure how I'd do rules for it, though.
CirclMastr (11:20:18 PM): The Depleted Uranium Bone Lacing?
Umbrafer (11:20:28 PM): In the thread, yes, but not the DU lacing.
Umbrafer (11:20:33 PM): That makes me cry.
Umbrafer (11:43:57 PM): Anyway, I'm going to go do that whole "sleep" thing.
Umbrafer (11:44:03 PM): Take care, all.
CirclMastr (11:44:04 PM): Wimp
CirclMastr (11:44:06 PM): G'night.
Thematrian1 (11:44:13 PM): mrp
Umbrafer (11:44:17 PM): Mrp?
CirclMastr (11:44:40 PM): Meat Readily Produced
Umbrafer (11:45:03 PM): That sounds like a man who has fallen asleep in a computer lab. Or something.
CirclMastr (11:45:24 PM): Ah well
Thematrian1 (11:45:34 PM): home
Thematrian1 (11:45:35 PM): I'm at home
Umbrafer (11:45:42 PM): Ah, good.
CirclMastr (11:46:14 PM): Wait, what? Stephen Baldwin? Wil Wheaton was supposed to be on CSI tonight. I had a drinking game all planned out!
Thematrian1 (11:46:39 PM): ?
CirclMastr (11:47:15 PM): Wil Wheaton was supposed to be on CSI tonight. But I just saw a commercial for it saying Stephen Baldwin was on it.
Thematrian1 (11:47:40 PM): what sort of drinking game would you play with Wil Wheaton and CSI?
CirclMastr (11:48:11 PM): Like, chug every time his CSI character says something Wesley Crusher would never say.
CirclMastr (11:48:48 PM): Drink a shot every time his CSI character says something Wesley would say. Taken liberally. CSI char: "Yes." "WESLEY ONCE SAID 'YES'! DRINK!"
Umbrafer (11:48:55 PM): So pretty much drink constantly?
Thematrian1 (11:49:09 PM): that sounds like an awesome way to die
CirclMastr (11:49:12 PM): All drinking games work that way, J
Umbrafer (11:49:46 PM): Most of the ones I've seen will let you get to the first commercial without alcohol poisoning
CirclMastr (11:50:00 PM): Well, I doubt Wil Wheaton would be in every single scene
Umbrafer (11:50:39 PM): I suppose.
Umbrafer (11:53:14 PM): You could always adapt it.
Umbrafer (11:53:31 PM): Every time Stephen Baldwin says something, chug. Every time he does something, take a shot.
Umbrafer (11:53:36 PM): It'd have much the same effect.
CirclMastr (11:53:48 PM): Or simpler still
CirclMastr (11:54:15 PM): Every time Stephen Baldwin does something that Alec Baldwin could do better but for more money, drink. You'd need a couple kegs to get through it.
Thematrian1 (11:54:46 PM): Just out of curiosity, what actions wouldn't you drink on, with that rule?
CirclMastr (11:54:57 PM): Scenes where he doesn't appear, obviously.
Thematrian1 (11:55:10 PM): ah, naturally
Umbrafer (11:55:15 PM): That's true. With mine you would arguably be drinking the entire time.
Umbrafer (11:55:29 PM): Unless you thought he was in suspended animation between scenes.
CirclMastr (11:55:40 PM): Well, it's not a live TV show.
CirclMastr (11:55:57 PM): Obviously you have to go by events they televise.
CirclMastr (11:56:13 PM): Otherwise you have to drink for your entire (short) life and you won't make up enough drinking.
CirclMastr (11:57:17 PM): So when I went to the drug store to buy more razors and deodorant, I decided to pick up some face wash and moisterizer. I feel so dirty.
Umbrafer (11:58:29 PM): ?
CirclMastr (11:58:53 PM): Like all the TV propaganda has gotten to me. So many makeover shows. Damn you, Queer Eye!
Umbrafer (11:58:59 PM): Hehehe
CirclMastr (11:59:30 PM): Eight dollars for this tiny little shit bottle of moisterizer. Such a ripoff.
Umbrafer (11:59:47 PM): Trader Joe's is your god.
CirclMastr (12:00:00 AM): I thought that was a grocery store.
CirclMastr (12:00:10 AM): Besides, it's like a 20 minute drive to Trader Joe's.
Umbrafer (12:00:20 AM): Yes, but they've got a little section with things like moisturizers, etc.
Thematrian1 (12:00:24 AM): It's a five hour drive to Trader Joe's where I live
Umbrafer (12:00:32 AM): Seriously?
Thematrian1 (12:00:35 AM): yes
Umbrafer (12:00:46 AM): (It's a ~25-30 minute drive for me) Where are you again?
Thematrian1 (12:00:54 AM): much of that is Pittsburgh traffic. But then you leave pittsburgh, and you still have to drive
CirclMastr (12:01:06 AM): He took that Middle of Nowhere lifestyle flaw.
Thematrian1 (12:01:21 AM): Worse
Thematrian1 (12:01:24 AM): Middle of Pittsburgh
CirclMastr (12:01:31 AM): Like I said ;)
Umbrafer (12:01:35 AM): Wow
Umbrafer (12:01:40 AM): No Pittsburgh stores at all.
CirclMastr (12:02:11 AM): Here we go
CirclMastr (12:02:16 AM): $5, 1.7 fl. oz.
CirclMastr (12:02:25 AM): 50 mL
CirclMastr (12:03:15 AM): "Facial SPF 15 Moisturizer"
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Chat room exited at 3/11/2005 12:24:49 AM.