New chat room entered at 7/28/2005 8:50:38 PM.
You are now in chat room “sotsw072805.”
CirclMastr has entered the chat room.

Thematrian1 has entered the chat room.

CirclMastr (8:51:54 PM): Where'd we leave off last week?
Thematrian1 (8:52:05 PM): we were stopped dead by one camera
Umbrafer (8:52:09 PM): Next to the security camera.
Umbrafer (8:52:11 PM): Yeah.
CirclMastr (8:52:12 PM): I just remember shopping and coming back
Thematrian1 (8:52:16 PM): </bitterness>
CirclMastr (8:52:28 PM): Why were we stopped?
Thematrian1 (8:53:17 PM): neither of us can get by it without being seen
CirclMastr (8:53:29 PM): Ha ha
Thematrian1 (8:53:30 PM): the only one who can, Glitch, is not only unrepresented by his player but can't disable the camera
Thematrian1 (8:53:56 PM): he was going to try it with my deck, anyway; he has a computers skill
CirclMastr (8:53:59 PM): Can't you summon a spirit and have it use Accident on the camera?
Thematrian1 (8:54:05 PM): maybe that's why he's absent; he fears the challenge to come
Thematrian1 (8:54:05 PM): yes
CirclMastr (8:54:13 PM): ...And why didn't that work?
Thematrian1 (8:54:16 PM): but it will summon a repair crew, so it has to be done with some finesse
CirclMastr (8:54:47 PM): Mm.
CirclMastr (8:57:09 PM): I could always go up to it and make faces at it while you sneak past, heh
Umbrafer (8:58:09 PM): Here's a question for you folks:
Umbrafer (8:58:58 PM): Is ¥180,000 a reasonable price for an SR3R equivalent to an SR3 level 3 contact at chargen, do you think?
Umbrafer (8:59:13 PM): If we assume that Level 1 contacts are still ¥5,000?
Thematrian1 (8:59:45 PM): it's as reasonable as 200kY was, I guess, but how potent are SR3R level 3 contacts?
Umbrafer (8:59:59 PM): Well
Umbrafer (9:00:06 PM): I've currently got a dilemma
Umbrafer (9:00:18 PM): I'm still working on the contact-as-area model
CirclMastr (9:00:31 PM): Contact-as-.....area?
CirclMastr (9:00:45 PM): "Hey Seattle, where in you is [target building]?"
Thematrian1 (9:00:46 PM): right
Umbrafer (9:00:58 PM): A 1-1 1-1 contact is 2 points, a 6-6 6-6 contact is 72
Thematrian1 (9:01:15 PM): (four axes, the cost of the contact is the size of the quadrilateral formed by four lines of those sizes extended from the origin)
Umbrafer (9:01:30 PM): If I want a 1-1 1-1 contact to be equivalent to a Level 1 contact, I just multiply by ¥2,500
Thematrian1 (9:01:30 PM): (by connecting the endpoints of those lines, I should say)
Thematrian1 (9:01:49 PM): (is proportional to, right)
Umbrafer (9:02:05 PM): The question becomes:
Umbrafer (9:02:17 PM): Under this system a 6-6 6-6 contact would be ¥180,000
Thematrian1 (9:02:45 PM): well, that's the most powerful possible contact: one who loves you, is skilled, wields lots of influence, &c
Umbrafer (9:02:52 PM): Indeed
Thematrian1 (9:02:55 PM): far stronger than a 'normal' SR3 level3 contact
CirclMastr (9:03:04 PM): Level 3 contacts have always been banned for being, y'know, gamebreaking.
Thematrian1 (9:03:05 PM): (which is as it should be, level 3 contacts are crap)
Thematrian1 (9:03:18 PM): hm
Umbrafer (9:03:19 PM): Theoretically the most powerful contact in my system would be about 9-9 9-9, but that would be being FastJack's brother, give or take
Thematrian1 (9:03:31 PM): Dave: care to elaborate on that?
CirclMastr (9:03:37 PM): I thought Fastjack was senile or dead ;D
CirclMastr (9:04:22 PM): A level 3 contact is someone skilled who would literally do just about anything for you.
Umbrafer (9:04:33 PM): Not any more.
CirclMastr (9:04:54 PM): ?
Thematrian1 (9:05:01 PM): The only thing in the rules I know of gives you two extra dice when asking them for favors, as compared to the one extra die you get from an l2.
CirclMastr (9:05:24 PM): Oh, I always thought the SRComp rules sucked.
CirclMastr (9:05:38 PM): In that case, Level 3 contacts are banned because if you take one everyone else beats the shit out of you.
Thematrian1 (9:05:52 PM): that's fair. But other than those you really have to make up the contact rules from whole cloth, no?
Umbrafer (9:06:05 PM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (9:06:16 PM): (Dave: the four axes in this case are Versatility, Closeness to the character, Immediacy, and Power)
CirclMastr (9:06:39 PM): (The difference between Closeness and Immediacy isn't... immediate)
Umbrafer (9:06:40 PM): (Immediacy being the measure of whether they personally have whatever's being looked for, or if they know someone, or if they know someone who knows someone, etc.)
Thematrian1 (9:06:42 PM): (How did Versatility shake out, exactly?)
Umbrafer (9:07:00 PM): Well, I have't come up with exact rules yet because I'm still debating where to peg Level 3 contacts
CirclMastr (9:07:04 PM): So Immediacy is more like Degrees of Separation
Umbrafer (9:07:06 PM): Whether as 6-6 6-6 or 6-6 5-5
Umbrafer (9:07:10 PM): Indeed
Umbrafer (9:07:23 PM): Closeness is more like the friendliness that is all that the current system tracks
CirclMastr (9:07:46 PM): *Changes them to Versatility, Closeness to the character, Closeness to Kevin Bacon, and Power*
Umbrafer (9:07:48 PM): L1 SR3 contacts parse out to about 1 Closeness (needs a roll to remember your name), while L3s parse out to 6+ (would potentially die for you)
CirclMastr (9:08:08 PM): I've yet to meet an SR DM who plays L1 contacts as written.
Umbrafer (9:08:15 PM): Yes, because they suck.
Umbrafer (9:08:24 PM): I mean, they make sense
Umbrafer (9:08:26 PM): But…
Thematrian1 (9:08:33 PM): In fairness, I don't think anyone in my game has yet tried to interact with one of their level 1 contacts
Thematrian1 (9:08:44 PM): almost a year in, which is a statement in itself
Umbrafer (9:08:49 PM): I've talked to Zbynhev a few times
Thematrian1 (9:09:11 PM): I can hardly remember his name; that's like his not being able to remember yours, right?
Umbrafer (9:09:23 PM): His name is a little bit more difficult ;)
Umbrafer (9:09:41 PM): Realistically, though, we wouldn't interact with our L1 contacts
Umbrafer (9:09:53 PM): I think it's intended to demonstrate a "strictly business" relationship
Umbrafer (9:11:05 PM): Which is why I'm maintaining that level of non-connectedness as 1-point Closeness.
CirclMastr (9:11:18 PM): I've always thought mechanics for contacts sucked. I always just play out contact dealings.
Umbrafer (9:11:52 PM): I'm down with that—I don't, for instance, intend to be outlining a lot of modifiers and soforth—but I'd like a fixed guide on what a given contact can or cannot do
Umbrafer (9:12:25 PM): SR3 rules don't differentiate between FastJack as your brother and the kid down the street who happens to be a good shot with a slingshot and who would die for you.
CirclMastr (9:12:46 PM): GMs never allowed FastJack as your brother AFAIK
Umbrafer (9:12:52 PM): That sort of extreme GMs can deal with easily, but the swing of what's "reasonable" is pretty wide.
CirclMastr (9:13:43 PM): The next question would be what do contact edges do?
Umbrafer (9:13:52 PM): Edges?
CirclMastr (9:14:08 PM): Things like Friends in High Places, a free Level 2 contact. How does that translate into your axes?
Umbrafer (9:14:21 PM): It gets gotten rid of.
Umbrafer (9:14:28 PM): Rather, replaced
Thematrian1 (9:14:39 PM): I think Friends in High Places gets the axe. It exists because there's no way to acquire a powerful L2 contact with the standard rules.
CirclMastr (9:14:58 PM): And for shapeshifters and otaku who can't buy contacts with Resources...
Thematrian1 (9:15:14 PM): There's an 'extra contact' edge for that, isn't there?
Umbrafer (9:15:19 PM): Indeed.
Thematrian1 (9:15:31 PM): though that seems like a terribly clumsy hack to me
Umbrafer (9:15:32 PM): I'm planning on having an equivalent to "exceptional attribute" for contacts as well
CirclMastr (9:15:34 PM): That's for a L1 contact, which we've gone over as "sucking ass"
Umbrafer (9:15:45 PM): It'll be in contact points now
Umbrafer (9:15:49 PM): Instead of "just L1"
Thematrian1 (9:15:59 PM): But FiHP isn't just an L2 contact, it's a particular kind
Umbrafer (9:16:13 PM): Indeed. That particular edge will be gone.
Umbrafer (9:16:23 PM): It will be recreatable, generally speaking, with the edge I'm describing
Umbrafer (9:16:39 PM): I'm not sure how exactly I'll implement it, but the idea of letting people pay a non-cheap fee to get a 7 in one contact ability seems to make sense
Umbrafer (9:16:58 PM): FiHP gets the 7 in Power, for example
Thematrian1 (9:17:10 PM): ::nod::
Umbrafer (9:17:43 PM): It'd probably be a medium-cost Edge that would allow them to buy the additional level rather than an edge that grants a point
Thematrian1 (9:18:06 PM): making them pay with Edge points and cash. Fair.
CirclMastr (9:18:10 PM): I have a feeling contacts are going to cost a shitload in SR3R
Umbrafer (9:18:16 PM): Depends
Umbrafer (9:18:27 PM): According to my current plan, L1 contacts still cost ¥5,000.
Thematrian1 (9:18:30 PM): the 6666 contact is cheaper
Umbrafer (9:18:34 PM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (9:18:43 PM): L2 contacts are the ones who get their prices jacked up.
CirclMastr (9:18:44 PM): According to your system, L1 contacts are still a waste of 5k
Umbrafer (9:19:03 PM): I disagree
Umbrafer (9:19:12 PM): Well
Umbrafer (9:19:14 PM): Maybe.
Umbrafer (9:19:15 PM): Hm.
Thematrian1 (9:19:19 PM): I disagree with your disagreement. Any contact with closeness 1 is pretty worthless, IMO
Umbrafer (9:19:20 PM): Actually, you might be right
Umbrafer (9:19:23 PM): Under the current rules they aren
Umbrafer (9:19:28 PM): I disagree with that part
Umbrafer (9:19:35 PM): Closeness 1 is still dandy IMO.
Umbrafer (9:19:50 PM): It's the fact that under current rules they don't have 1s in everything else, but now they would, that is iffy.
Umbrafer (9:19:55 PM): The question is, how to fix that?
Thematrian1 (9:20:17 PM): Smaller multiplier? 6666's are still probably too expensive IMO.
Umbrafer (9:20:35 PM): A 6-6 6-6 is pretty powerful, though.
Thematrian1 (9:20:39 PM): I don't think you need to worry about someone building a degenerate character with a bunch of high-end contacts and few of their own abilities.
Umbrafer (9:20:42 PM): Significantly more so, IMO, than a L3 SR3 contact.
Umbrafer (9:20:44 PM): Heh
Umbrafer (9:20:47 PM): True.
Umbrafer (9:20:55 PM): One thought I had:
Umbrafer (9:21:15 PM): Pegging the low-end "default" at 1-2 1-2 or somesuch
Thematrian1 (9:21:34 PM): ::nod:: Keep the multiplier the same, but add a constant factor?
Umbrafer (9:21:55 PM): Well
Umbrafer (9:22:07 PM): I may be barking up the wrong tree. Let me describe what my thought process is:
Umbrafer (9:22:18 PM): As of right now, what I've been trying to do is identify the default low-end contact
Umbrafer (9:22:30 PM): Possibly something that can be gone below, but as I mention the "default".
Umbrafer (9:22:39 PM): And then make that be about ¥5,000.
Umbrafer (9:22:44 PM): And let everything else ride from there.
Umbrafer (9:23:18 PM): If we were going 1-2 1-2 the multiplier would be ¥1,000 and the 6-6 6-6 ¥72,000, which might be too cheap
Thematrian1 (9:23:40 PM): 72 is probably not enough
Thematrian1 (9:23:43 PM): definitely
Umbrafer (9:23:48 PM): Indeed.
Thematrian1 (9:23:58 PM): buy 3, little overlap, for the price of a good deck
Umbrafer (9:24:31 PM): Well, there'd be overlap because these would be highly versatile folks.
Umbrafer (9:24:32 PM): Damn you, exponents, why must you increase gaps too fast.
Umbrafer (9:24:41 PM): I need that sort of gap-increase towards the end of the spectrum.
Umbrafer (9:25:07 PM): While I play around with a base value, is there a better way I could be going about this?
Umbrafer (9:25:25 PM): (Rather than aforementioned find-base-value-and-go method)
CirclMastr (9:25:42 PM): Use a small exponent on each so higher values in one attribute are hella costly but a well-rounded one is cheaper?
Umbrafer (9:26:18 PM): If I square the values, I end up with a high/low value of well over 1,000
Umbrafer (9:26:25 PM): For reverence, under SR3 it's about 40.
Umbrafer (9:26:36 PM): (Scratch that "about")
Thematrian1 (9:26:39 PM): a smaller exponent would be the right way to go for a computer game...
Umbrafer (9:26:43 PM): Indeed
Umbrafer (9:27:04 PM): But even the two triangle-areas, while not difficult, is more scary-looking than I want it to be
CirclMastr (9:27:47 PM): You could always say the system is too complicated and hijack the Enemies setup from SRComp
Umbrafer (9:28:02 PM): I remember little about that other than that I detested it
Thematrian1 (9:28:06 PM): that one sums the point values
Thematrian1 (9:28:13 PM): but it doesn't map to anything real-world
Thematrian1 (9:28:22 PM): and a level 5 or 6 enemy is like having Borrowed Time
Umbrafer (9:28:28 PM): Heh
Thematrian1 (9:28:29 PM): except deadlier
Umbrafer (9:28:42 PM): Yeah, at least with Borrowed Time you get at least 3 months
Umbrafer (9:28:48 PM): Which, the way we play, may as well be forever
CirclMastr (9:28:58 PM): Indeed.
CirclMastr (9:29:12 PM): In fact, I just decided my next character will have Borrowed Time :D
Thematrian1 (9:29:15 PM): until you get injured in a place where you can spend time healing. We don't do much with downtime, here
Umbrafer (9:29:21 PM): This is true.
Thematrian1 (9:29:35 PM): I get the impression that this is unusual, though it's hard to say for sure
Umbrafer (9:29:39 PM): All of the times we had time to burn we were perfectly healthy
Umbrafer (9:29:42 PM): Well
Umbrafer (9:30:16 PM): Judging from some of my other experience, we're an unusually tactical and stats-optimized group in some ways for a non-high-powered campaign
Umbrafer (9:30:19 PM): Rather I should say
Umbrafer (9:30:55 PM): We've got a combination of planning, tactical thinking, good (non-vengeful/competitive) GMing, non-uber-campaigned, and a few other things that doesn't usually come up
Umbrafer (9:31:01 PM): We also don't have Tim
Thematrian1 (9:31:10 PM): Tim?
CirclMastr (9:31:21 PM): Tim the power gamer
Umbrafer (9:31:27 PM): Tim was a guy from my Saturday group (who abruptly left for Hawaii)
CirclMastr (9:31:32 PM): Oh, a real Tim
Thematrian1 (9:31:34 PM): ah, that guy
Umbrafer (9:31:42 PM): If something was cool enough, he'd do it.
Umbrafer (9:32:04 PM): That included things like confronting a pair of yakuza hunters in the middle of a sushi restaurant in a nice part of town.
Umbrafer (9:32:11 PM): When he had no particular need to.
CirclMastr (9:32:15 PM): And why did he not die?
Umbrafer (9:32:26 PM): Quick thinking by the other players.
CirclMastr (9:32:39 PM): Didn't they realize they'd be better off not thinking quickly?
Umbrafer (9:32:41 PM): Also, the fact that his Edged Weapons skill was world-class.
Umbrafer (9:32:55 PM): Sometimes you take one for the team.
Umbrafer (9:33:01 PM): Where by "the team" we mean "Tim"
Thematrian1 (9:33:06 PM): And sometimes the guy next to you gets volunteered
Umbrafer (9:33:08 PM): Adam lost several drones covering for him.
Umbrafer (9:33:22 PM): He made sessions fun, in a way
Umbrafer (9:33:31 PM): But his was not a style conducive to long life or health
Umbrafer (9:33:59 PM): Great guy, but I wouldn't want to be watching his back./
Umbrafer (9:34:04 PM): *-/
Thematrian1 (9:34:34 PM): It's true, though; the whole SotSW community, insofar as there is one, is twink-devoid.
CirclMastr (9:34:51 PM): We have a community?
Thematrian1 (9:34:55 PM): sure
Thematrian1 (9:35:02 PM): though not a communion
Thematrian1 (9:35:09 PM): you need 10 for a communion
Umbrafer (9:35:34 PM): I'd always heard the term "twink" used at least partially synonymously with power-gamer, etc.
CirclMastr (9:35:43 PM): Yeah
Umbrafer (9:35:45 PM): In which case "saturated" would be more accurate than "devoid"
Thematrian1 (9:35:45 PM): in the gaming community, anyway
Thematrian1 (9:35:53 PM): I disagree
Thematrian1 (9:36:01 PM): we all play deliberately powerful characters
CirclMastr (9:36:23 PM): "Twink" is more like "I have 1 Charisma because I'm not a Face."
Thematrian1 (9:37:04 PM): yeah, that's basically what I'm trying to say
Umbrafer (9:37:09 PM): Ah.
Umbrafer (9:37:23 PM): Though even that isn't it
CirclMastr (9:37:24 PM): Or "Otaku fade anyway, I'll just take Borrowed Time instead, he'd probably kill himself anyway or something"
Umbrafer (9:37:29 PM): (Well, that helps, but yeah)
CirclMastr (9:37:43 PM): Or "All my characters have Sensitive Neural Structure 2"
Umbrafer (9:37:50 PM): My character does
CirclMastr (9:37:51 PM): "And Sea Madness"
Umbrafer (9:37:58 PM): I'm using Tim to illustrate the example of the person for whom it is not always about effectiveness
Umbrafer (9:38:09 PM): Including the times when, in-character, it should be.
CirclMastr (9:38:11 PM): (brb, dinner)
Thematrian1 (9:38:13 PM): yeah, I was talking about something slightly different, come to think of it
Thematrian1 (9:38:17 PM): but we lack Tim, too
Umbrafer (9:40:06 PM): There's also the fact that our play styles are largely similar, or at least compatible
Thematrian1 (9:40:28 PM): varying demands on the kinds of role-playing that we like
Thematrian1 (9:42:05 PM): but eys
Umbrafer (9:42:18 PM): (As I've been occasionally venting to Seiler for quite some time, the same is not the case in my Saturday group)
Thematrian1 (9:42:56 PM): speaking of, that guy you were testing SR3R decking with seems ripe for recruitment, if you want one more player, Jon
Thematrian1 (9:43:01 PM): ShadowDragon something
Umbrafer (9:43:06 PM): About half the team is happy to go with a very investigation/interaction/puzzle-oriented gameplay style. The other half is a little more into hitting things with bullets/guns/whatever.
Umbrafer (9:43:09 PM): Indeed.
Thematrian1 (9:43:21 PM): which is a really ugly split to be faced with
Umbrafer (9:43:22 PM): I've volunteered to help him make a character.
Umbrafer (9:43:28 PM): Indeed.
Thematrian1 (9:43:28 PM): he's never played?
Umbrafer (9:43:33 PM): Not so much that
Umbrafer (9:43:37 PM): Specifically, he's making a Rigger.
Thematrian1 (9:44:00 PM): ...so how do two riggers get along in the same space?
Umbrafer (9:44:01 PM): Though I'm still sad about it, I think it's a good thing that the game my first Rigger was in fell apart.
Thematrian1 (9:44:09 PM): ?
Thematrian1 (9:44:23 PM): got a chance to fix your mistakes with Alex, or...?
Umbrafer (9:44:29 PM): Yes, basically
Umbrafer (9:44:56 PM): Both mechanically (like my complete lack of encryption, or going with dramatically worse and more expensive choices over better and cheaper ones)
Umbrafer (9:45:02 PM): And personality-backstory wise
Thematrian1 (9:45:11 PM): non-strato drones over strato drones?
Umbrafer (9:45:17 PM): No, she had Stratos.
Umbrafer (9:45:23 PM): That part I'd got figured out.
Umbrafer (9:45:29 PM): Things like no encryption, VCR-2
Umbrafer (9:45:41 PM): The biggest one is that I used a Citymaster instead of a Roadmaster for the base vehicle
Thematrian1 (9:45:46 PM): ah, yeah
Umbrafer (9:45:49 PM): (This was before Rigger 3 Revised made their Avail 9)
Thematrian1 (9:45:55 PM): right
Thematrian1 (9:46:09 PM): Alex was pre-R3R too, IIRC. She was certainly pre-me-reading-R3R
Umbrafer (9:46:10 PM): Since Drive-By-Wire is based on the vehicle base cost, it was a dramatically more expensive choice
Umbrafer (9:46:22 PM): Alex was built with R3R rules, IIRC
Umbrafer (9:46:30 PM): Yes, she was
Umbrafer (9:46:49 PM): I distinctly remember my consternation at discovering that the Citymaster was now unavailable
Umbrafer (9:46:53 PM): Dodged a bullet there.
Thematrian1 (9:46:55 PM): ah
Thematrian1 (9:47:02 PM): I sure did ;-)
Thematrian1 (9:47:29 PM): So this game gets a Rigger who'll show up? I could live with that.
Umbrafer (9:47:31 PM): Heh, not you. Imagine Alex with much the same capability as she has now, but about ¥150,000 less of it.
Umbrafer (9:47:49 PM): That's pretty much the difference between Alex built with a Citymaster and Alex built with a Roadmaster.
Umbrafer (9:48:01 PM): (Citymaster being the less-stuff version)
Thematrian1 (9:48:03 PM): ::nod::
Umbrafer (9:48:43 PM): The only thing I'm missing that the Citymaster has is the gas enviroseal and 20 man-hours of life support
Umbrafer (9:48:58 PM): And I can add those whenever, if I get access to the parts (not expensive or bulky)
Umbrafer (9:49:12 PM): Oh, wait
Umbrafer (9:49:15 PM): And five points of armor
Umbrafer (9:49:22 PM): But I can add those too—I stopped at 5 for a reason.
Thematrian1 (9:49:34 PM): the Handling, or is it a Load thing?
Umbrafer (9:49:52 PM): Handling. CF was getting a bit tight too, but IIRC I can do it with room to spare.
CirclMastr (9:50:04 PM): Back
Umbrafer (9:50:14 PM): (Concealed armor sucks CF, isn't it always the way)
Umbrafer (9:50:32 PM): One other improvement is that Alex doesn't initiate Sniper Drone Wars.
Umbrafer (9:50:38 PM): Well
Thematrian1 (9:50:44 PM): she did rifle that one guy
Thematrian1 (9:50:48 PM): but he didn't really get sniped
Umbrafer (9:50:53 PM): She does have the sporting-rifle-equipped miniblimp
Umbrafer (9:50:56 PM): So I take that back
Thematrian1 (9:50:57 PM): so much as shot in the back of the head from 20 feet away
Umbrafer (9:51:00 PM): She's even more equipped for it
Umbrafer (9:51:01 PM): Yeah
Umbrafer (9:51:05 PM): She may never have used the capability
Thematrian1 (9:51:09 PM): but you haven't gone there
Umbrafer (9:51:12 PM): Indeed.
Thematrian1 (9:51:15 PM): just like Gem has never Confusion'd a guy
Umbrafer (9:51:19 PM): Heh
Umbrafer (9:51:35 PM): Or WatcherAttackPack
Thematrian1 (9:51:45 PM): right
Umbrafer (9:51:51 PM): There are some things that just aren't done.
CirclMastr (9:52:06 PM): Force 1 fetish-limited spells?
Umbrafer (9:52:13 PM): You can do those all you want
Umbrafer (9:52:22 PM): Waste of your time, as I've already ruled that minimum cost is 1
CirclMastr (9:52:28 PM): Heh
Thematrian1 (9:52:30 PM): as long as they're fetished for drain? Or that, sure
Umbrafer (9:52:33 PM): But if you want to take a permanent limitation for no compensation, be my guest.
CirclMastr (9:52:53 PM): "It's part of my character! Now gimme bonus karma." "BAD munchkiN!"
Umbrafer (9:53:08 PM): Also, strictly speaking I only said that heavy pistols can't load AV ammo
Umbrafer (9:53:16 PM): So you can probably get some from your fixer
Umbrafer (9:53:31 PM): Not sure why they make it, as it doesn't seem to fit ;)
Thematrian1 (9:53:42 PM): he
Thematrian1 (9:53:43 PM): h
Umbrafer (9:53:46 PM): Ah well.
CirclMastr (9:53:47 PM): It's like the Cedar Box
Umbrafer (9:53:51 PM): Indeed.
CirclMastr (9:53:57 PM): It can duplicate anything, but only a few things seem to fit...
Umbrafer (9:54:19 PM): I'm so using that in a game sometime.
Umbrafer (9:54:30 PM): Bound spirit with Wealth, oh yeah.
CirclMastr (9:54:43 PM): "Why can I fit a full clip of AR ammo inside but not this ring?"
Umbrafer (9:54:48 PM): But where was I: two Riggers can get along beautifully.
Umbrafer (9:55:06 PM): As with everything, it depends on how the characters get along.
Umbrafer (9:55:17 PM): If they actively tread on each others' toes, that can be detrimental.
Umbrafer (9:55:32 PM): At worst, they do different things at the same time and you get a dramatic capability increas.
CirclMastr (9:55:32 PM): One vehicle rigger and one drone rigger?
Umbrafer (9:55:33 PM): *e
Thematrian1 (9:55:47 PM): heh
Thematrian1 (9:55:52 PM): are you trying to get Jon wound up?
Umbrafer (9:55:53 PM): At best, they become particularly friendly and swap the drones back and forth between them so they can be anywhere in the network they want to be.
CirclMastr (9:55:56 PM): Yes :D
Umbrafer (9:56:06 PM): Actually, I'd been driving towards this in the Tuesday game a while back
Thematrian1 (9:56:12 PM): oh?
Umbrafer (9:56:33 PM): Trying to convince someone to snag a VCR-1 to do basic Drone duties so that human attention could be two places at once
Thematrian1 (9:56:46 PM): that's right, you were working on Blake
Umbrafer (9:56:49 PM): I scaled that back since Blake became the only option and has no Essence for that
Umbrafer (9:57:01 PM): But he's still working on learning how to do what he can with a datajack
Thematrian1 (9:57:08 PM): well, your options were never broad. Were you planning to enmesh Shojo?
Thematrian1 (9:57:23 PM): Sam was a mage, Trickster regenerates, Rock...is Rock :-D
Umbrafer (9:57:33 PM): Originally, yeah. As part of the general blurring of lines that happened once I got my hands on a deck
Umbrafer (9:58:44 PM): I've also come up with a comprehensive plan for Alex's 'ware-enhancement
Thematrian1 (9:58:56 PM): easy enough to do
CirclMastr (9:59:02 PM): Lack of being able to play in the Tuesday game makes me sad.
Umbrafer (9:59:15 PM): The first .19 Essence costs ¥75,500
Thematrian1 (9:59:16 PM): I am simultaneously saddened and pleased to hear it
Thematrian1 (9:59:20 PM): eh?
Umbrafer (9:59:32 PM): The last two points cost ¥1,800,000
Thematrian1 (9:59:56 PM): ok, I'll bite. What are you planning to buy?
Umbrafer (10:00:06 PM): (That being the costs for upgrading everything but the VCR to betaware and the VCR to betaware, respectively)
CirclMastr (10:00:07 PM): MBW delta-grade, obviously.
Thematrian1 (10:00:32 PM): not in .24 essence, he's not
CirclMastr (10:00:36 PM): How much money does MacLeod have?
Thematrian1 (10:00:36 PM): ah
Thematrian1 (10:01:02 PM): well, good luck with that
Thematrian1 (10:01:07 PM): I recommend leaving Chicago first
Umbrafer (10:01:20 PM): That is, of course, assuming full street costs. It's more likely that I'll be able to swap work for 'ware long before I'll have that much raw cash lying around.
Umbrafer (10:01:22 PM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (10:01:25 PM): No bugs in the wires.
Umbrafer (10:01:30 PM): These are long-term goals.
Umbrafer (10:01:33 PM): Put it this way:
Umbrafer (10:01:50 PM): For that price, I could buy just shy of three Boomers (if I could make the Avail roll of 30)
Umbrafer (10:01:55 PM): You remember the Boomer, don't you?
Thematrian1 (10:02:10 PM): ...yes
CirclMastr (10:02:15 PM): I don't.
Thematrian1 (10:02:26 PM): It's an urban tank
Thematrian1 (10:02:28 PM): essentially
Umbrafer (10:02:38 PM): That's pretty much it.
Umbrafer (10:03:13 PM): Pop-up HMG turret, internal space for 20 missiles, able to fire two of them a round, drone racks for an army of drones, six ejecting bucket seats
Umbrafer (10:03:25 PM): Signature 4, Electronic Deception up the wazoo
Umbrafer (10:03:32 PM): A whole host of other features
Umbrafer (10:03:44 PM): And… from the outside, it looks like a large utility van.
Thematrian1 (10:04:04 PM): until it starts slinging missiles
CirclMastr (10:04:07 PM): Other people need to get L5R 3E so someone will run a game of it for me.
Umbrafer (10:04:13 PM): (11 armor--it's not too tough to tell that it's armored, but identifying its full capabilities is… less easy)
Umbrafer (10:04:26 PM): Oh, and a max speed of 210 MPT
Umbrafer (10:04:39 PM): For that critical 20D ramming attack.
Umbrafer (10:06:27 PM): It needs some work, though. I've been patching up some holes in its design.
Umbrafer (10:06:59 PM): Still, I posted a minor rework of it in a Dumpshock thread in response to a request for a ¥3,000,000 uber-tank
Thematrian1 (10:07:04 PM): fixing things that aren't legal, yeah. But still, a terribly deadly piece of work. So is the plan "Boomer, then 'ware upgrades"?
Thematrian1 (10:07:06 PM): I saw
Umbrafer (10:07:34 PM): IIRC the only non-legal thing was the least threatening part of the whole design ;)
Umbrafer (10:07:52 PM): (I screwed up and took Rating 12 Power Amplifiers when they max out at Rating 10)
Umbrafer (10:08:07 PM): No, the plan is probably 'ware upgrades.
Umbrafer (10:08:28 PM): Again, the calculated by-the-book Avail of 30 puts a bit of a damper on my designs for one.
CirclMastr (10:08:29 PM): Nobody here cares about L5R.
Umbrafer (10:08:32 PM): It's still a long-term goal.
Umbrafer (10:08:47 PM): (I'll admit that I don't particularly, but I'll care about the fact that you care about it)
CirclMastr (10:09:10 PM): (Not enough to learn the system and run a game of it)(
Umbrafer (10:09:24 PM): I just find it amusing that it's dramatically less expensive than the 'ware.
Thematrian1 (10:09:26 PM): (I played the card game for a while. Won some money, but not a lot)
Umbrafer (10:09:41 PM): Who knows, if I get the chance I'd probably go for it.
CirclMastr (10:09:48 PM): (I used to play the card game, until Ree Soesbee completely fucked it up)
Umbrafer (10:09:58 PM): (Do tell?)
Thematrian1 (10:10:02 PM): (? What happened to it?)
CirclMastr (10:10:32 PM): (It's a long story. And there have been a couple (slightly less stupid) plot arcs since. The setting is now unrecognizable to anyone who left during an early edition, though)
Thematrian1 (10:11:03 PM): (Ah. I was wondering if he'd introduced balance issues, but it's more of a plot thing?)
Thematrian1 (10:11:44 PM): (Not to denigrate that)
CirclMastr (10:11:45 PM): (The game balance shifts with each expansion, as they favor one or two clans particularly each time)
Umbrafer (10:12:09 PM): (Gah, always hated when things did that)
CirclMastr (10:12:13 PM): (Lion got shafted for a long time, then I heard they came back for a while, they're down again by now though)
Umbrafer (10:12:15 PM): (I mean, not that it's easy to avoid)
Thematrian1 (10:12:21 PM): (Right, but no egregious mistakes? There weren't any (that I knew of) when I played, so I can't really compare)
CirclMastr (10:13:02 PM): (There was a brief shining moment when Enlightenment was viable, then they changed the Ring of Air rules and nerfed it)
Thematrian1 (10:13:26 PM): (The five rings victory? I'd heard rumors, but never saw it work. I'm sorry I missed it...)
CirclMastr (10:13:44 PM): (Sadly enough, they changed the rules in mid-tournament so that in the finals there was an Enlightenment deck that lost because of the new ruling)
Umbrafer (10:13:51 PM): (?)
Thematrian1 (10:13:51 PM): (...)
Thematrian1 (10:14:06 PM): (I think I'd quit any game whose overlords pulled that kind of nonsense)
CirclMastr (10:14:19 PM): And it would have won without the ruling. Literally.
CirclMastr (10:14:35 PM): He created the exact scenario that the ruling was meant to defeat, and lost the next turn.
Umbrafer (10:14:53 PM): What scenario?
Umbrafer (10:14:58 PM): And I agree, that's bulldrek.
CirclMastr (10:15:18 PM): The Ring of Air is playable as a reaction after you've used three spell effects in one turn.
CirclMastr (10:15:43 PM): It used to be that if your third spell effect for the turn put the Ring of Air in your hand, you could play the reaction to put it into play.
CirclMastr (10:15:57 PM): They changed it so you have to have the Ring of Air in your hand when you declare the third spell action.
Umbrafer (10:16:10 PM): …Why?
CirclMastr (10:16:16 PM): I don't know.
Thematrian1 (10:16:18 PM): To nerf the deck, I expect
Thematrian1 (10:16:21 PM): well
CirclMastr (10:16:39 PM): But that happened to the player in the finals, his third spell put the Ring of Air in his hand, and he had all the other Rings in play.
CirclMastr (10:16:51 PM): Under the old rules, he could have played it and won.
CirclMastr (10:17:04 PM): Instead he couldn't play it that turn. His opponent destroyed his last province the next turn.
Thematrian1 (10:17:14 PM): but as it was his opponent got an extra untap. Tragic
Thematrian1 (10:17:15 PM): unbow
Thematrian1 (10:17:16 PM): whatever
CirclMastr (10:17:22 PM): "Straighten"
CirclMastr (10:17:26 PM): Whatever
Thematrian1 (10:17:27 PM): thanks
CirclMastr (10:17:50 PM): The real problem was another card, the spell card that the Enlightenment decks relied on.
Thematrian1 (10:17:59 PM): ?
CirclMastr (10:18:04 PM): Basically you could swap any Ring you have in play with a Ring in your fate deck.
CirclMastr (10:18:28 PM): So you could play an easy Ring like Air or Void, swap it for a hard ring like Fire or Water, and then draw the easy ring and play it again.
Thematrian1 (10:19:06 PM): ::nod::
CirclMastr (10:19:18 PM): But the RPG is quite different from the CCG, with just the setting in common really.
Thematrian1 (10:19:23 PM): well, yeah
Thematrian1 (10:19:25 PM): so it always goes
CirclMastr (10:19:26 PM): Sadly, the current setting sucks.
Thematrian1 (10:19:35 PM): but it's the sum total of my experience iwth the L5R universe
Thematrian1 (10:19:37 PM): so
Umbrafer (10:19:41 PM): Incidentally, it looks like I'm an idiot and missed a PM from Matt
CirclMastr (10:19:45 PM): I'd play it in a game with a 1E setting (the equivalent of a 2050-2055 SR game)
Thematrian1 (10:19:52 PM): oh?
Thematrian1 (10:19:56 PM): (To both of you)
Umbrafer (10:20:10 PM): As it turns out it was telling us he'd be late and get here 9:00-9:30, so I think we're in the same boat we were in
Umbrafer (10:20:20 PM): But the basic idea is that he's stuck doing family stuff.
CirclMastr (10:20:35 PM): 1st Edition had the basic 'starting point' for the setting. It's almost the end of the Thousand Years of Peace, there's tension between all factions, but the status quo is still there.
CirclMastr (10:21:17 PM): The new setting has all sorts of things raped. The basic structure of the setting is weird, the antagonist is weird, there's too much going on to keep track of for a campaign.
CirclMastr (10:21:57 PM): There were a lot of things in between that I'm glad died in 2E (*coughRatlingsNagacough*)
Umbrafer (10:22:07 PM): ?
CirclMastr (10:22:08 PM): But I'd still like to see 3E's setting burned.
CirclMastr (10:23:10 PM): Playing a Ratling is like playing an otaku. You're highly specialized and you're weird and outcast.
CirclMastr (10:23:37 PM): Playing a Naga is like playing a shapeshifter ghoul sasquach who is the Hidden Life for a totem.
Umbrafer (10:23:40 PM): Someday I'd like to play an Otaku properly.
Thematrian1 (10:23:49 PM): haha
Umbrafer (10:24:07 PM): Sadly it would require being in a game that was pre-agreed to be essentially a cyberpunk improv session rather than a game per se
CirclMastr (10:24:09 PM): (In other words, you're a really stupid plot device)
Umbrafer (10:24:16 PM): (No, not at all)
CirclMastr (10:24:24 PM): (I mean as a Naga, not your otaku thing)
Thematrian1 (10:24:28 PM): (I think he's describing...yeah)
Umbrafer (10:24:29 PM): (Oh, yeah0
Umbrafer (10:24:35 PM): (Ne'er mind. Yeah.)
Umbrafer (10:24:39 PM): (Yeah, just a tad.)
Umbrafer (10:24:45 PM): (Those got playable how?)
CirclMastr (10:25:12 PM): (A 2E sourcebook that I've gladly never read)
CirclMastr (10:25:41 PM): I'm tempted to forcibly make you both read the setting chapters from the 1E main book (which I have in PDF, don't tell anyone) and see if it sparks your interest.
Thematrian1 (10:25:55 PM): even if it does, I have as many games as I can be in right here
Thematrian1 (10:26:03 PM): plus, in think In Nomine is next in the queue ;-)
CirclMastr (10:26:16 PM): Yeah
CirclMastr (10:26:22 PM): Maybe just J then, heh
Umbrafer (10:26:44 PM): Between this and the Saturday game I'm in about as many games as I can take
CirclMastr (10:26:54 PM): Bah, you're both useless.
Thematrian1 (10:27:09 PM): you may have to create your own gamers
Umbrafer (10:27:28 PM): Build them, construct them from clockwork and clay
CirclMastr (10:27:33 PM): Practically everyone I know is a gamer.
CirclMastr (10:27:59 PM): *looks* One... two.... three... I know 3 non-gamers.
Thematrian1 (10:28:08 PM): all in your immediate family, right
CirclMastr (10:28:13 PM): I mean online.
Thematrian1 (10:28:16 PM): oh
CirclMastr (10:28:20 PM): EVERYONE in my family is a non-gamer but me.
Thematrian1 (10:28:28 PM): what about those underage girls? You could run a game for them...
CirclMastr (10:28:30 PM): (And I don't know anyone not online not in my family)
CirclMastr (10:28:36 PM): They're gamers.
Thematrian1 (10:28:45 PM): right, but will they play L5R?
CirclMastr (10:28:46 PM): And they're not often online.
MilesMk1 has entered the chat room.

CirclMastr (10:29:31 PM): Think I could get Matt to learn and run it? heh
MilesMk1 (10:29:32 PM): Evening. Sorry, I was dragged away...
Umbrafer (10:29:43 PM): And life returns. How was the peopleness?
MilesMk1 (10:29:51 PM): Get Matt to what?
Umbrafer (10:30:07 PM): He might.
CirclMastr (10:30:08 PM): Learn and run L5R
Umbrafer (10:30:15 PM): (Bah, you gave it away)
MilesMk1 (10:30:25 PM): Would have been nice enough if I didn't have things I'd rather be doing. ;)
Umbrafer (10:30:51 PM): We're touched :)
MilesMk1 (10:31:06 PM): Is this some other Matt, or I?
Thematrian1 (10:31:22 PM): you are the very Matt
Umbrafer (10:31:27 PM): (In the head, possibly ;) ) So. You are standing in a tunnel. There is a security camera to the Northwest. To the Southwest is an intersection.
Umbrafer (10:31:34 PM): Along the wall there are doors.
Umbrafer (10:31:45 PM): It is dark. You may be eaten by a Grue.
MilesMk1 (10:31:54 PM): I'm not actually averse to running things, but I'm just curious how the idea came about. (Let's talk about it later.)
Thematrian1 (10:32:22 PM): (Process of elimination. Dave really wants to play L5R, and neither of us would do it. Then, right on cue, you showed up)
MilesMk1 (10:32:48 PM): I believe the idea was to give Glitch a crash course in decking (or give Matt a crash course in decking) and have him hack the camera, right?
Thematrian1 (10:32:53 PM): Speaking of running things, Glitch was going to try and mess up the camera, or were we skipping straight to the accident plan?
Thematrian1 (10:33:17 PM): works for me. Gem hands Glitch her deck, admonishing him by certain subtle movements of her eyes to not drop it.
MilesMk1 (10:34:13 PM): So... Will I need to get into the blind spot, connect the deck to the camera, and hack?
Umbrafer (10:34:25 PM): That's the general idea.
Thematrian1 (10:36:03 PM): yep
MilesMk1 (10:36:23 PM): Ok. Before I do that, I'd like to get a better look at the camera guarding the ladder up, to see which one is the better choice - that one, or the one in the side corridor.
MilesMk1 (10:36:37 PM): So I guess I sneak and I look.
Umbrafer (10:36:53 PM): Roll Security procedures.
Umbrafer (10:36:56 PM): *P
MilesMk1 (10:37:28 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 5 5 5 3 5 3 6 3
MilesMk1 (10:37:35 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 3
Umbrafer (10:38:29 PM): That depends on variables beyond your control—specifically, which direction people are more likely to come from. In your opinion, though, the room above is probably riskier than this little hallway.
MilesMk1 (10:38:45 PM): Allrighty then...
MilesMk1 (10:39:08 PM): I go after the camera in the hallway.
Thematrian1 (10:39:11 PM): ::leans casually::
CirclMastr (10:39:54 PM): ::is bored::
MilesMk1 (10:40:00 PM): I will listen after getting in position first, to make sure no one is going to interrupt me.
MilesMk1 (10:40:10 PM): (none of that, now, or I won't run L5R)
CirclMastr (10:40:13 PM): ::also has more money than I know what to do with::
CirclMastr (10:40:19 PM): (Will you run it otherwise?)
Thematrian1 (10:40:22 PM): (Why, how much does MacLeod have?)
CirclMastr (10:40:30 PM): (However much we've gotten pain)
CirclMastr (10:40:34 PM): *paid
MilesMk1 (10:40:36 PM): (Heh... I'm open to new possibilities.)
MilesMk1 (10:41:01 PM): (I guess it depends on scheduling and whether anyone besides you would actually want to play.)
Umbrafer (10:41:07 PM): (As with most things listening-related, that's a Perception test)
MilesMk1 (10:41:13 PM): (Sorry.)
MilesMk1 (10:41:17 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 2 2 3 2 4 1
MilesMk1 (10:41:49 PM): All I can say, thank god for spatial recognizers...
Umbrafer (10:42:13 PM): (Those just help you pinpoint the sound if you've already heard it)
Umbrafer (10:42:23 PM): You hear some noises, but none of them sound like approaching footsteps.
MilesMk1 (10:42:29 PM): (Thank God for hearing amp? ;P )
Umbrafer (10:42:32 PM): (Or other sounds of occupation)
Umbrafer (10:42:41 PM): (That one's better)
MilesMk1 (10:42:59 PM): All right... I procceed to jack into the camera, and hack it.
MilesMk1 (10:43:43 PM): (BTW, just what exactly am I hacking it to do? Display a blank hallway, all the time, do so at predetermined intervals, something else?)
Umbrafer (10:43:52 PM): Let's get Electronics, then Electronics Build/Repair, then we get to the good stuff.
Thematrian1 (10:44:01 PM): (The normal hallway as of now, for say five minutes)
Thematrian1 (10:44:16 PM): (Or maybe several hours, to cover both ways. Yeah, I like that better)
MilesMk1 (10:45:13 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 5 4 5 3 6 3 4 5
MilesMk1 (10:45:19 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 5
MilesMk1 (10:45:28 PM): That was electronics... Now B/R.
MilesMk1 (10:45:34 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 2 1 4 2 4 1 1 2
MilesMk1 (10:45:39 PM): Uh...
Umbrafer (10:45:55 PM): *Crunch*
MilesMk1 (10:45:58 PM): Here's hoping microscopic vision helps?
Umbrafer (10:46:13 PM): You get it hooked in, but it's nothing remotely like clean.
Umbrafer (10:46:29 PM): A little work makes you think that it still probably won't fall out mid-session and dump you.
MilesMk1 (10:47:18 PM): Can I attempt to improve on it?
Umbrafer (10:47:27 PM): You can give it a shot
MilesMk1 (10:47:38 PM): ... sure, why not.
MilesMk1 (10:47:42 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 5 4 2 5 6 5 1 2
MilesMk1 (10:47:49 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
MilesMk1 (10:47:53 PM): Figures.
Umbrafer (10:48:29 PM): It's… in, sorta.
Umbrafer (10:49:31 PM): The connection tests ok, at least for the moment.
Umbrafer (10:49:34 PM): Going to try jacking in?
MilesMk1 (10:49:50 PM): No other choice...
Umbrafer (10:51:06 PM): You settle yourself down into a relatively comfortable spot in th camera's blind space, click the datacable into place, and find yourself…
Umbrafer (10:51:31 PM): …In another place. You're standing in a very cold and windy area in front of a hole in a vast wall.
Umbrafer (10:51:38 PM): Behind you there's just black space.
Umbrafer (10:52:48 PM): (Right, Matrix-inexperienced here. Logon to Host is the operation you'll be wanting)
MilesMk1 (10:52:56 PM): Ok. This is the part where people tell me what to do in simple words... Ah.
MilesMk1 (10:53:19 PM): Is that a hard thing to do? Should I use things like hacking pool for it?
Thematrian1 (10:53:21 PM): (Roll Computers, plus some of your hacking pool. How much hacking pool do you have?)
Umbrafer (10:53:26 PM): (The basic philosophy is that you roll your Computers skill against a TN reduced by the appropriate rating)
Thematrian1 (10:54:11 PM): (You can spend up to 6 pool dice to increase the Host's TN to do bad things to you by up to 3. It is essentially always correct to spend those dice, given that you're using that deck)
MilesMk1 (10:54:14 PM): (6+MPCP)/3 + 4
Thematrian1 (10:54:34 PM): (Throw your hacking pool into what's left; they refresh after each action, unless you're doing combat, basically)
Thematrian1 (10:54:44 PM): MPCP is 7, so 13/3 = 4, 4+4 = 8
Umbrafer (10:55:18 PM): I think that's the most hacking pool I've seen yet
Umbrafer (10:55:24 PM): At least in any non-dedicated decker
MilesMk1 (10:55:44 PM): So, I spend 6 dice on jacking up the system's TN, and add the remaining 2 to my computer...
MilesMk1 (10:56:07 PM): (I assume the bous dice from Encephalon and Math Coprocessor stack - if they don't...)
Thematrian1 (10:56:17 PM): (They do)
Umbrafer (10:56:41 PM): (They do. Yes indeedy they do.)
MilesMk1 (10:56:43 PM): (Oh, and does my normal +2 from encephalon to all INT based skills still add to computers, or not?)
Thematrian1 (10:57:00 PM): (It's replaced with the hacking pool bonus)
MilesMk1 (10:57:06 PM): (Ok.)
Thematrian1 (10:57:23 PM): (v0.1 of Gem wasn't as cyber-heavy, and had an Encephalon to go with her SPU)
MilesMk1 (10:57:36 PM): So, I do what I said above... 6 spent on the TN, and rolling 7 dice for Computers.
MilesMk1 (10:57:42 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 4 3 3 6 4 6 3
MilesMk1 (10:57:48 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 6 3
MilesMk1 (10:57:52 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
Umbrafer (10:57:59 PM): Deception is what, 6?
Thematrian1 (10:58:11 PM): yep
Umbrafer (10:58:48 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 2 1 2 1 4 3 3 2 6 5 4 4 5 4 3
Umbrafer (10:59:01 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 5
Thematrian1 (10:59:08 PM): (DF is 9, JFTR)
Umbrafer (11:00:11 PM): You crawl through the hole in the wall (yep) and find yourself high atop another wall. On one side lies an almost stereotypical feudal Japanese village with a castle high atop a hill. On the other is Tokyo, give or take.
Umbrafer (11:00:31 PM): (With the noticable glitches as a reminder that you're in the Matrix, of course)
MilesMk1 (11:02:08 PM): Hmm. So the security cameras will probably be represented by something like sentries?
Umbrafer (11:02:31 PM): (So that I don't interfere with your methods of doing things, I'll leave most of the coaching to Seiler here)
Thematrian1 (11:03:22 PM): I'm not sure, the metaphor varies.
Thematrian1 (11:03:48 PM): (Dave: this is all OOC anyway, so by all means contribute if you're moved to)
CirclMastr (11:04:38 PM): (I'm not good with Matrix iconography)
Thematrian1 (11:04:40 PM): The program you want is 'Browse'; it'll find things for you. In this case, "the camera at <our particular position>"
MilesMk1 (11:05:07 PM): Ok... Do I still want to allocate as many dice as possible to Deception?
CirclMastr (11:05:23 PM): Yes
CirclMastr (11:05:28 PM): ALWAYS
CirclMastr (11:05:38 PM): It is the ONLY THING keeping you alive.
CirclMastr (11:05:43 PM): (And no, this isn't sarcasm)
MilesMk1 (11:05:55 PM): So, basically, I just do the same thing as I did last time? 6 dice of deception, and roll 7 dice for computers to Browse?
Thematrian1 (11:05:59 PM): Yep.
MilesMk1 (11:06:04 PM): Ok.
MilesMk1 (11:06:07 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 2 4 1 6 5 5 2
MilesMk1 (11:06:12 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
MilesMk1 (11:06:16 PM): grr
Thematrian1 (11:06:19 PM): I can't think of any times at all, with this deck, that you want to use those dice for anything other than Deception
Umbrafer (11:06:21 PM): (Let's avoid loose terminology here—it's Detection Factor that you'd be allocating to, Deception is a utility)
Thematrian1 (11:06:27 PM): (Argh, good point)
Umbrafer (11:06:40 PM): (Also, a general note on hacking pool:)
Umbrafer (11:06:54 PM): (It's almost always best to allocate the maximum amount to Detection Factor)
Umbrafer (11:07:09 PM): (Beyond that, there are only two times you don't just dump all the remaining into your current test:)
Thematrian1 (11:07:20 PM): (I was thinking that if your DF is already ~12, the gains might be marginal enough to warrant pumping them into Computers)
Umbrafer (11:07:29 PM): (Those cases are combat and any time you want to do more than one test per combat turn (time constraints, etc.))
Thematrian1 (11:07:35 PM): (That essentially can't happen without optional rules that we're not using)
Umbrafer (11:07:49 PM): (Technically there's a third case involving suppressing IC, but we'll get to that if it comes up.)
MilesMk1 (11:07:58 PM): (It will NOT come up. Not.)
MilesMk1 (11:08:14 PM): (;))
Thematrian1 (11:08:36 PM): (Yeah, that reminds me. If you encounter IC, log off. This deck is not equipped for combat at all.)
Thematrian1 (11:08:49 PM): (I'm not sure it even has an attack program)
MilesMk1 (11:08:55 PM): (Got it.)
Umbrafer (11:09:55 PM): (Incidentally, your two main options at this point are to start using Browse to search for what you're looking for or Analyze to take a look at the host and determine what you're up against)
Thematrian1 (11:10:09 PM): (I recommend Browse, as I said above)
Umbrafer (11:10:16 PM): (I'll resume leaving coaching to Seiler and Dave, but that's one that gets forgotten enough that it's worth mentioning)
Thematrian1 (11:10:37 PM): (Analyzing the host mostly lets you know how it's about to kill you. The knowledge doesn't actually change your plans at all, so why risk getting spotted?)
MilesMk1 (11:11:27 PM): (I actually rolled for Browse already...)
Thematrian1 (11:11:34 PM): (...doh)
Umbrafer (11:12:05 PM): (Oops)
Umbrafer (11:12:25 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 4 6 6 1 5 3 1 1 4 3 2 2 5 4 3
Umbrafer (11:12:31 PM): Umbrafer rolled 2 6-sided dice: 4 3
Umbrafer (11:12:58 PM): You get a lead, but it's hazy—the air seems thick.
Thematrian1 (11:13:27 PM): (These sorts of tests often require cumulative successes, so keep at it.)
MilesMk1 (11:13:50 PM): (Ok... I do so - I Browse again.)
Umbrafer (11:13:52 PM): (Also note that successes by the host cancel your successes, so you may need to retry tests that you've gotten successes on)
Thematrian1 (11:14:00 PM): (That too)
CirclMastr (11:14:01 PM): (Of course, the more tests you make, the closer you are to death)
MilesMk1 (11:14:12 PM): (Security tally?)
MilesMk1 (11:14:20 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 1 2 2 4 4 1 6
Umbrafer (11:14:21 PM): (You need to Analyze to find that out)
MilesMk1 (11:14:26 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 2
Umbrafer (11:14:30 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 1 5 6 5 1 6 3 6 6 3 5 3 3 6 6
Umbrafer (11:14:39 PM): Umbrafer rolled 3 6-sided dice: 5 1 2
MilesMk1 (11:14:47 PM): (I mean, is the reason every test I make brings me closer to death is the security tally?)
Umbrafer (11:14:53 PM): (Oh, yes.)
Umbrafer (11:15:05 PM): (Every test you make gives the system a countertest to raise your tally.)
Umbrafer (11:15:31 PM): You slog on along the wall, but it feels like you're moving through molasses.
CirclMastr (11:15:32 PM): (And your only defense is your DF)
MilesMk1 (11:16:32 PM): (I guess my only choice now is to try to Browse again?)
Thematrian1 (11:16:51 PM): (This could potentially be IC, but more likely you're just not doing well with the searching. There's not a lot of choice but to...yes, that)
Umbrafer (11:17:00 PM): Ah, hold
Umbrafer (11:17:02 PM): Sensor test.
CirclMastr (11:17:08 PM): (Yipes)
MilesMk1 (11:17:12 PM): What do I roll for that?
Thematrian1 (11:17:20 PM): Um. Seven dice
MilesMk1 (11:17:27 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 3 5 4 1 2 4 2
CirclMastr (11:17:33 PM): (Extra yipes)
CirclMastr (11:17:40 PM): (With a side of Oh God)
MilesMk1 (11:17:43 PM): This is not turning out very well.
Thematrian1 (11:17:46 PM): (A Sensor test means you've been made. This is bad)
Umbrafer (11:17:48 PM): There are some icons wandering the streets on either side, but nothing seems amiss.
Umbrafer (11:18:06 PM): Continuing to Browse?
Thematrian1 (11:18:11 PM): (But, you didn't spot it, so I guess you keep going. A trace can't hurt you, so go for it)
MilesMk1 (11:18:17 PM): Yeah.
Thematrian1 (11:18:21 PM): (If they break out the Black Hammer...well, I'm sorry)
CirclMastr (11:18:22 PM): (Sensor is like "Roll Perception" only every result is bas)
CirclMastr (11:18:24 PM): *bad
MilesMk1 (11:18:27 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 3 2 6 3 2 1 4
MilesMk1 (11:18:32 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
MilesMk1 (11:18:34 PM): Fuck.
Umbrafer (11:18:43 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 6 2 1 6 5 1 6 1 6 2 4 5 2 2 6
Umbrafer (11:18:48 PM): Umbrafer rolled 3 6-sided dice: 4 5 5
Umbrafer (11:19:00 PM): Sensor again.
MilesMk1 (11:19:11 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 2 6 6 5 1 3 1
MilesMk1 (11:19:14 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 1 6
MilesMk1 (11:19:18 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 3
Umbrafer (11:20:04 PM): You look around. Everything seems peaceful, but then you catch a glimpse of a large, grey wolf approaching from the feudal side of the wall.
CirclMastr (11:20:28 PM): (Graceful Logoff)
Umbrafer (11:20:29 PM): It's IC, of the Crippler variety.
Umbrafer (11:20:33 PM): You're not sure how nasty.
Thematrian1 (11:20:40 PM): (I concur)
MilesMk1 (11:20:49 PM): Ok... I gracefully log off.
Thematrian1 (11:21:01 PM): (you have to roll for it)
MilesMk1 (11:21:13 PM): Ah. What do I roll? My usual 7 dice?
Umbrafer (11:21:17 PM): Yep
Thematrian1 (11:21:18 PM): yep
MilesMk1 (11:21:21 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 7 6-sided dice: 2 4 3 2 5 4 1
Umbrafer (11:21:25 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 3 4 1 4 3 3 1 2 5 3 1 2 1 6 3
Umbrafer (11:21:44 PM): You vanish from the wall as the wolf's jaws close around the space your leg occupied.
Umbrafer (11:22:30 PM): You are once again sitting beneath the camera.
MilesMk1 (11:22:53 PM): Listen for sounds of security in the physical world...
Umbrafer (11:23:17 PM): (I will note that Crippler just attacks an icon attribute. Anything but Masking damage is ignorable.)
Umbrafer (11:23:27 PM): (Whether you want to take that chance is up to you.)
Umbrafer (11:23:34 PM): Roll it.
MilesMk1 (11:23:41 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 1 6 2 1 3 3
MilesMk1 (11:23:45 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 2
Umbrafer (11:23:54 PM): All quiet on the Western front.
MilesMk1 (11:23:55 PM): (I clearly wasn't meant to be playing tonight.)
Thematrian1 (11:24:24 PM): (I guess. Oh well, time for plan B)
MilesMk1 (11:24:40 PM): Ok, so what does what just happened mean to me? Can I try again later, or will the IC just be waiting for me? Will it take so long for it to reset I effectively can't try again, because we don't have the time to wait?
CirclMastr (11:25:07 PM): The tally won't go down for quite a while
CirclMastr (11:25:18 PM): Too long for our purposes, I imagine, though I'm not sure.
Thematrian1 (11:25:19 PM): You can wait for the system to cool down and reset, but it takes on the order of hours IIRC
Umbrafer (11:25:20 PM): Reset time depends on chance and the security level of the host, and varies from ~15 minutes to about an hour or more.
Umbrafer (11:25:41 PM): It extends dramatically if you trigger a passive alert (and even more if you trigger an Active)
Umbrafer (11:25:50 PM): But those you would have noticed.
MilesMk1 (11:26:04 PM): Ok... We definitely can't afford to just wait that long with no place to hide.
Thematrian1 (11:26:28 PM): So: Accident the camera, get in, hide from the repair crews as we go? It seems chancey as hell, but what else can we do?
MilesMk1 (11:26:46 PM): *unjacks from the camera, covers his tracks, slouches back over to Gem and Macleod*
CirclMastr (11:26:50 PM): Kill everyone?
Thematrian1 (11:27:14 PM): #Well?#
MilesMk1 (11:27:35 PM): If we're going to do that, it almost seems less risky for Glitch to briefly make the camera lose feed while you guys walk past.
Thematrian1 (11:27:36 PM): If we can keep up the illusion of functionality until...midnight? Dusk?
Umbrafer (11:27:53 PM): Midnight.
Thematrian1 (11:27:59 PM): Hell, you can do that? Screw the Accident plan, let's do that.
Umbrafer (11:28:10 PM): Your job needs to be done by Dusk. Changes need to go untampered until Midnight.
Umbrafer (11:28:20 PM): Incidentally, Intelligence from everyone.
Umbrafer (11:28:28 PM): No, scratch that
Umbrafer (11:28:30 PM): Just Glitch
CirclMastr (11:28:34 PM): So we kill everyone and kill everyone who approaches until midnight!
MilesMk1 (11:28:39 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 2 5 3 5 2 4 4 5
Umbrafer (11:29:24 PM): Three 5s, that does the trick. You remember that one of the people you heard walking through the tunnel while you were in the shaft you entered by was complaining about how everything breaks down around here.
MilesMk1 (11:29:56 PM): (I guess it depends on how hard it'd be to screw with the camera... If this was a movie, I could just mess with the cable to create static, which would be noticed but ignored by a donut-eating guard once the picture came back)
MilesMk1 (11:30:33 PM): #I do remember them complaining about things breaking down all the time... It might not arouse that much suspicion, but two separate cameras... Still seems a stretch.#
MilesMk1 (11:30:45 PM): BTW - can I even do what I proposed?
Thematrian1 (11:30:49 PM): #Cameras on the same path, no less. Question is, do we have a choice?#
Umbrafer (11:31:03 PM): Depends on your definition of "briefly".
Umbrafer (11:31:27 PM): You can't guarantee that you can bring it back on-line, and you can't guarantee that you can do it in any given small timeframe, but it's possible
Umbrafer (11:31:36 PM): It gets a lot more difficult if you want it to look untampered-with
Umbrafer (11:31:49 PM): Incidentally, electronics B/R for cleaning your tracks before
MilesMk1 (11:31:54 PM): Mhmm... I was thinkinking 5-10 seconds, I guess.
MilesMk1 (11:32:00 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 6 2 4 6 2 4 1 3
MilesMk1 (11:32:04 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 6 1
MilesMk1 (11:32:07 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 6
MilesMk1 (11:32:11 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
MilesMk1 (11:33:00 PM): #I could try to do what you're planning to do with magic manually - maybe - but I just don't feel that lucky tonight.#
Umbrafer (11:33:19 PM): Covering your tracks, you know you can do it in a minute thirty. You're pretty sure you can do it in a minute. Thirty seconds is tough but possible. getting it under twenty would be very difficult.
MilesMk1 (11:34:11 PM): #They probably are on the same circuit... And if I do it, it'll probably take me about a minute to restore the picture and remove signs of tampering. I guess your way it is.#
Thematrian1 (11:35:14 PM): (My way just breaks it for no apparent reason, there's no track-covering or picture-restoration without repairs...right?)
Umbrafer (11:35:26 PM): (Indeed)
Thematrian1 (11:36:06 PM): #I doubt they can have a group here in sixty seconds, but there's no chancing it. What the hell, in a day it won't matter.#
Thematrian1 (11:36:23 PM): #Get out of the camera field, then, I need to recall the spirit covering you.#
MilesMk1 (11:36:28 PM): #All right - just one thing before we do it.#
MilesMk1 (11:36:54 PM): #Let me make sure that there's someplace for use to go once we climb up the ladder, or this will be pointless.#
MilesMk1 (11:37:05 PM): (for us, not for use)
Thematrian1 (11:37:06 PM): #Hah, yes, please do#
MilesMk1 (11:37:26 PM): *does so*
Umbrafer (11:38:03 PM): (Just to be clear, what is that involving?)
CirclMastr (11:39:03 PM): (A crystal ball)
MilesMk1 (11:39:32 PM): (1. Climb up the ladder partway to get a look around the room. 2. Examine any doors and make sure the locks on them at least look like something I can get by.)
Umbrafer (11:40:09 PM): Stealth, then Electronics.
MilesMk1 (11:40:15 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 4 4 6 6 2 6
MilesMk1 (11:40:19 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 1 6
MilesMk1 (11:40:22 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 3
MilesMk1 (11:40:32 PM): Finally something goes my way.
MilesMk1 (11:40:37 PM): That was stealth.
MilesMk1 (11:40:44 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 2 6 3 6 6 5 1 4
Thematrian1 (11:40:45 PM): (That's, what, 25 after mods?)
Umbrafer (11:41:02 PM): (Probably)
Umbrafer (11:41:04 PM): Umbrafer rolled 15 6-sided dice: 2 3 5 6 2 5 4 3 1 4 5 1 4 3 4
Umbrafer (11:41:07 PM): Umbrafer rolled 1 6-sided die: 4
MilesMk1 (11:41:08 PM): 15+12 for ruthenium+your spirits mods
MilesMk1 (11:41:16 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 5 4
Umbrafer (11:41:18 PM): (I could roll for the state of Utah and no one would see him)
Thematrian1 (11:41:19 PM): (31, then; I only gave you a little one)
MilesMk1 (11:42:24 PM): (Did damn well on the Electronics too.)
MilesMk1 (11:42:49 PM): (11,10,8,5 plus talent bonus)
Umbrafer (11:42:56 PM): There's a door there. It's locked very securely.
MilesMk1 (11:43:02 PM): (I open the locks with my mind!)
Umbrafer (11:43:04 PM): Specifically, it's locked very securely against the other direction.
Umbrafer (11:43:16 PM): It's actually got a bypass switch from this direction.
Umbrafer (11:43:42 PM): Granted it is marked "Alarm will sound", but it ought to be easier to hack.
MilesMk1 (11:43:55 PM): Excellent.
MilesMk1 (11:44:24 PM): *relays his findings and gets into position out of camera fields of view*
Umbrafer (11:47:18 PM): (You're in position and soforth. Spirit drops Concealment?)
Thematrian1 (11:47:38 PM): (Nope, spirit is still there)
Thematrian1 (11:47:48 PM): (I'm not dropping it until I need it to Accident the camera(s))
Umbrafer (11:48:27 PM): (Ah, I see. So what exactly was Glitch doing?)
Umbrafer (11:48:40 PM): (I'd thought you were Accidenting now)
MilesMk1 (11:49:07 PM): (I thought I was waiting for the Accidenting to happen.)
Thematrian1 (11:49:31 PM): (Ah, you're not passing through until after we arrive. I see.)
Thematrian1 (11:49:49 PM): I call my spirit back.
MilesMk1 (11:50:07 PM): (Well, I think they'd see the door open on camera even if they didn't see me.)
Thematrian1 (11:50:14 PM): Drop Concealment, ask it, very quietly, to cause an Accident for "the camera on the corner"
Umbrafer (11:51:14 PM): It heads over there. It investigates several corners before it finally finds one with a corner, but shortly thereafter you smell ozone and burning insulation.
Umbrafer (11:52:13 PM): A few pops, and there's quiet.
Thematrian1 (11:52:56 PM): ::progresses to just-out-of-sight-of-the-second-camera, repeat::
Umbrafer (11:53:49 PM): This time there's a very long sound of the camera refocusing, followed by an unpleasant-sounding crunch.
MilesMk1 (11:55:20 PM): *gets to work on bypassing the door*
Thematrian1 (11:55:22 PM): ::progresses:: #Two cameras down.#
Thematrian1 (11:55:32 PM): That was our last service from him, I'm pretty sure.
MilesMk1 (11:55:43 PM): #Working on the door... now.#
Umbrafer (11:55:50 PM): Probably. You don't see him anywhere, at least.
Umbrafer (11:56:20 PM): (Roll it) Where is everyone standing?
MilesMk1 (11:56:55 PM): Well, I don't have too many choices... But I will not be standing directly in front of the door is possible.
MilesMk1 (11:57:02 PM): if possible
MilesMk1 (11:57:06 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 8 6-sided dice: 3 4 6 3 1 2 1 5
Thematrian1 (11:57:08 PM): Out of line of sight of the door, if at all possible, and near Glitch
MilesMk1 (11:57:14 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 4
Umbrafer (11:57:31 PM): Well, Glitch is pretty much right next to the door
Thematrian1 (11:58:05 PM): yeah. So, along the wall, on the side he's on
Umbrafer (11:58:45 PM): It takes a bit, but the door finally gives way to Glitch's awesome powers.
Umbrafer (11:58:47 PM): Perception.
MilesMk1 (11:59:02 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 6 2 1 5 5 1
MilesMk1 (11:59:06 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 6
MilesMk1 (11:59:09 PM): MilesMk1 rolled 1 6-sided die: 1
MilesMk1 (11:59:13 PM): 13,5,5
Umbrafer (11:59:43 PM): Whirring and clicking from beyond the now-open door. Other than that, all is quiet.
MilesMk1 (12:00:22 AM): Does it sound like someone is working the door from the otehr side?
Umbrafer (12:00:59 AM): Not really. The sounds are coming from further away than that.
MilesMk1 (12:01:33 AM): #I hear some clicks and whirrs from behind the door, but they don't seem to be immediately behind it... Nothing to it but open it and see, I guess.#
Thematrian1 (12:02:07 AM): #So be it#
MilesMk1 (12:02:24 AM): *cracks the door and looks through*
Umbrafer (12:02:59 AM): Actually, the door slid open on your disengaging the lock
MilesMk1 (12:03:15 AM): Oh.
MilesMk1 (12:03:24 AM): What do I see on the other side, then?
Umbrafer (12:03:35 AM): A glance through shows a short, bare hallway with a T-junction at the end
MilesMk1 (12:03:44 AM): And scratch that communication to Gem.
MilesMk1 (12:04:26 AM): #Another T-junction... Let me take a look.#
MilesMk1 (12:04:41 AM): *sneaks forward to examine both sides of the T junction*
Thematrian1 (12:04:42 AM): #Let me get you another concealing spirit#
MilesMk1 (12:04:48 AM): *waits for the spirit*
Thematrian1 (12:04:50 AM): (Another F4, all dice to drain)
Thematrian1 (12:04:51 AM): Thematrian1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 3 6 3 4 1 3
Thematrian1 (12:04:54 AM): Thematrian1 rolled 10 6-sided dice: 5 4 1 1 2 4 6 3 1 3
Thematrian1 (12:05:01 AM): "Conceal him" ::points::
Umbrafer (12:05:38 AM): *Vwoop*
MilesMk1 (12:05:49 AM): *resumes what he was doing*
MilesMk1 (12:06:30 AM): Stealth?
Umbrafer (12:06:35 AM): Yep
MilesMk1 (12:06:51 AM): MilesMk1 rolled 6 6-sided dice: 2 4 4 4 4 2
MilesMk1 (12:06:58 AM): Hmm...
Umbrafer (12:07:02 AM): Down the right branch you hear the clicking and whirring. Down the left you see a few doors, one of which is clearly marked as the lavatory.
MilesMk1 (12:07:05 AM): Well, it's still 20...
MilesMk1 (12:07:31 AM): But I see no source of the clicking and whirring? Or any security cameras?
Umbrafer (12:08:55 AM): None.
MilesMk1 (12:09:52 AM): Um... Damn. Between the allergy shots earlier today and the long evening, I'm really sort of dead on my feet here.
Thematrian1 (12:10:10 AM): well, we got past the cameras. That's a day's work
MilesMk1 (12:10:17 AM): Sorry, especially since I was late...
Umbrafer (12:10:36 AM): (No problem, I was about to beg off on account of almost falling asleep on the keyboard)
MilesMk1 (12:10:50 AM): (Ok... I guess we are finally inside the station.)
Umbrafer (12:10:55 AM): (One of these weeks I'll adjust my sleep schedule in such a way that I'm not dead come Thursday evening)
MilesMk1 (12:11:47 AM): (So... Who, besides Dave, wants to play L5R? Just to know whether I should mull this or not.)
Thematrian1 (12:11:58 AM): (I'd like to, I just can't)
MilesMk1 (12:12:11 AM): (Ah.)
Umbrafer (12:12:29 AM): (I might be able to, but what with games on three out of seven days of the week I think it'd be a bit much)
Umbrafer (12:12:42 AM): (More importantly, I couldn't guarantee being able to past early September)
MilesMk1 (12:12:50 AM): (I thought that'd probably be the case.)
Umbrafer (12:12:54 AM): (Or, hell, past a few weeks)
MilesMk1 (12:13:18 AM): (So unless we decided to rotate it with one of the existing games or something, it's basically not likely to happen.)
Thematrian1 (12:13:50 AM): (Yeah. And in that unlikely event, In Nomine has dibs ;-))
MilesMk1 (12:14:34 AM): (Oh well.)
MilesMk1 (12:14:52 AM): (All right, see you guys next week - I'm going to turn it.)
Thematrian1 (12:15:00 AM): (Don
Umbrafer (12:15:01 AM): (Sleep well_
Umbrafer (12:15:04 AM): *)
Thematrian1 (12:15:05 AM): ('t turn it too hard)
Umbrafer (12:15:12 AM): (Hehehe)
MilesMk1 (12:15:21 AM): (Heh. 'Night.)
MilesMk1 has left the chat room.

Umbrafer (12:17:48 AM): So afore I turn in, was there any suggestion for how to approach the contact-cost problem other than finding a baseline and pegging that at ¥5,000?
Thematrian1 (12:17:58 AM): Not from me
Umbrafer (12:19:29 AM): How about suggestions for the other end of the spectrum? What's the minimum cost you'd consider acceptable for a 6-6 6-6 contact?
Thematrian1 (12:19:47 AM): Hm.
Thematrian1 (12:20:24 AM): Certainly > 100k. Greater than 150k too, I think. Beyond that...hm
Umbrafer (12:20:51 AM): I was thinking ¥150k as the minimum value
Umbrafer (12:22:18 AM): Well, let's try attacking this from the middle.
Umbrafer (12:22:39 AM): What do you think is a reasonable cost/level for a mid-grade contact (L2 equivalent)?
Umbrafer (12:22:55 AM): I'd been thinking along the lines of 3-3 3-3 or 4-4 2-2
Thematrian1 (12:23:37 AM): Somewhere in there seems fair. It'll be more expensive than an SR3 L2 contact, but that's ok
Umbrafer (12:23:53 AM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (12:24:44 AM): At the ¥2,500 peg a 3-3 3-3 is ¥45,000…
Thematrian1 (12:24:54 AM): sheesh.
Umbrafer (12:25:59 AM): Indeed.
Umbrafer (12:26:49 AM): Maybe if we… argh, SR3s massively compressed low end and massively stretched high end are screwing me up
Umbrafer (12:27:03 AM): I can make things work for the jump between L1 and L2, or L2 and L3
Umbrafer (12:27:27 AM): But getting a scale that goes from L1 to L3 smoothly is… not easy.
Thematrian1 (12:27:36 AM): ok, ok. Maybe 3333 being expensive isn't important. No one is going to strictly convert their contacts to the current system.
Umbrafer (12:28:22 AM): This is true.
Umbrafer (12:28:24 AM): Rather
Umbrafer (12:28:48 AM): No one is going to end up with their SR3 contacts having values equal to what they paid for them
Thematrian1 (12:29:19 AM): or, to put it another way, the SR3 contacts never had values equal to what was paid
Umbrafer (12:29:25 AM): Yeah.
Umbrafer (12:30:30 AM): I mean, Sigrun alone would probably cost upwards of ¥60,000 under this system. Fairly friendly, fairly powerful, fairly immediate—it's just versatility she'd be low on, and not even all that low
Umbrafer (12:30:46 AM): Likewise with some of the contacts I've seen Blake interact with
Thematrian1 (12:30:59 AM): hrrrm. You're right.
Umbrafer (12:31:32 AM): All in all, you can get a really good deal building under SR3 and converting to SR3R, especially for a Face.
Thematrian1 (12:31:46 AM): well, yes
Thematrian1 (12:31:58 AM): I don't think that's worth worrying about
Umbrafer (12:32:03 AM): Indeed
Thematrian1 (12:32:06 AM): it's always possible to exploit a conversion system
Umbrafer (12:32:08 AM): As it's presumably a one-time thing
Umbrafer (12:32:29 AM): If anyone's seriously going to be using it for non-preexisting characters, well, we leave that kind of error-checking to the GM.
CirclMastr (12:34:20 AM): Is SotSW going to convert to SR3R?
Umbrafer (12:36:35 AM): The general answer to that is probably yes, but the timeframe is looking to be a while unless I get quite a bit of inspiration about some nontrivial portions of the rules
CirclMastr (12:39:21 AM): Such as?
CirclMastr (12:39:41 AM): (aside contacts)
Umbrafer (12:40:01 AM): I still want to peg the default contact level higher than 1-1 1-1, but I can't figure out how to do that without bringing 6-6 6-6 too far down in price…
Umbrafer (12:40:09 AM): Well, the big part is figuring out what all needs fixing
Umbrafer (12:40:14 AM): Firearms rules are a big part
Umbrafer (12:40:35 AM): I want them to work in a predictable fashion, but then the question arises: predictable to who?
Umbrafer (12:41:28 AM): What is predictable to me is different from what is predictable to someone whose knowledge of firearms comes solely from Hollywood, which is in turn different from what is predictable to Raygun. Hell, which is also different (if les
Umbrafer (12:41:38 AM): (less so) from what is predictable to Austere Emancipator.
Thematrian1 (12:43:06 AM): right
Thematrian1 (12:43:41 AM): Letting playability trump predictability helps to some extent
Thematrian1 (12:43:53 AM): failing that, the Hollywood guy loses to Raygun
Thematrian1 (12:43:58 AM): AE I don't know anything about
Thematrian1 (12:44:59 AM): I'd rather that the Hollywood guy learned something, than that Raygun gets his expectations violated
Umbrafer (12:46:06 AM): Indeed
Thematrian1 (12:46:33 AM): problem with that, Raygun's rules aren't very playable. AE I don't remember enough about.
CirclMastr (12:46:42 AM): The question is, how far are you willing to go to please Raygun before you're making five tests against as many tables per attack?
Umbrafer (12:46:45 AM): AE's experience differs from Raygun's in that Raygun's experience is almost totally hunting whereas AE's is almost totally military training.
Thematrian1 (12:46:51 AM): ah
CirclMastr (12:49:37 AM): Playability should trump everything else.
Thematrian1 (12:49:49 AM): yeah, but often there'snot a lot to choose there
Umbrafer (12:49:53 AM): Pretty much. But to some extend predictability is playability.
Thematrian1 (12:50:12 AM): To an extent. But RL assault rifles aren't playable, just for example
CirclMastr (12:50:26 AM): Yeah, I'm not saying everything should be abstracted until it's "flip a coin, heads = success, tails = failure"
Thematrian1 (12:50:35 AM): There's a game system like that
Thematrian1 (12:50:49 AM): a lot of fun, for a certain combination of players
CirclMastr (12:51:40 AM): I'm sure there's an ideal balance between abstract and realistic that falls under playable and predictable.
Umbrafer (12:52:22 AM): That's what I'm hoping.
Umbrafer (12:52:35 AM): And that's the sort of insight that would speed things up immensely, and has yet mostly not been coming.
CirclMastr (12:53:44 AM): IMO, the first question you should ask when you go to revise a rule is "Will this make the game more fun?"
Umbrafer (12:54:07 AM): That's usually what I ask.
Umbrafer (12:54:36 AM): Sometimes I ask "will it make the game easier to run confidently", as in the case of the Contacts question—I suppose it's an extension of the same idea.
CirclMastr (12:55:16 AM): Your four axes system for contacts would probably prevent me from ever playing a Face again
Umbrafer (12:55:35 AM): Do tell
Umbrafer (12:55:38 AM): ?*?
CirclMastr (12:55:39 AM): I can't imagine doing that much math for more than half a dozen or so contacts.
Thematrian1 (12:55:42 AM): and the SR3 contact system wouldn't? But yeah, do tell
CirclMastr (12:56:04 AM): SR3's system is easy because I just decide who I want and get them all at level 2 :D
Umbrafer (12:56:20 AM): I mean, it's basically designed in such a way that I could tolerate playing a Face with it, but I realize that my criteria are not everyone's criteria.
Thematrian1 (12:56:22 AM): I thought it was the cost you were going to object to, notthe math
CirclMastr (12:57:09 AM): Maybe I just hate it when it takes a long time to stat out a character.
Umbrafer (12:57:26 AM): Hm.
CirclMastr (12:57:34 AM): I always use NSRCG for 'wared characters now. I've run out of patience calculating all the Alpha essence costs and everything
Umbrafer (12:57:51 AM): I suppose that is a valid objection. I prefer to push complexity to chargen as a one-time cost, but there is a limit to how much that can be done.
Thematrian1 (12:58:03 AM): So the existance of an equivalent for Contacts would solve the problem, for you?
Thematrian1 (12:58:34 AM): or, more generally, for SR3R
CirclMastr (12:59:03 AM): I'm not sure what my tolerance would be
CirclMastr (12:59:32 AM): Maybe I'd feel better if it was 3 attributes instead of 4, I don't know.
Umbrafer (12:59:37 AM): I don't think SR3R is going to be undersupported with software tools. Nonetheless, I'd like to see them be optional…
Umbrafer (12:59:51 AM): But I'm not entirely sure I see how it's much math
CirclMastr (1:00:08 AM): It's not on a per-contact basis
CirclMastr (1:00:23 AM): But when you deal with a large number of contacts, it's wearying.
Umbrafer (1:00:54 AM): I guess it depends on how varied your contact levels were going to be.
Umbrafer (1:01:06 AM): I'll try calculating contact costs cold sometime soon and see how it come sout.
CirclMastr (1:01:08 AM): Like spending one million in resources, having to figure out essence spent versus bio index, it gets harder as it gets bigger./
Umbrafer (1:04:31 AM): Well, I am more or less falling asleep on my keyboard now
CirclMastr (1:04:41 AM): My guess is more.
Thematrian1 (1:04:44 AM): ok, sleep well
Umbrafer (1:05:07 AM): I'll try to figure out some more… stuff. I forgot what I was saying.
Umbrafer (1:05:17 AM): Sleep well, everyone, talk to you all Tuesday if not before.
Thematrian1 (1:05:27 AM): aye
Chat room exited at 7/29/2005 1:05:31 AM.